[TeamManager]

Whatever begins to exist has a cause. The universe began to exist. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

You can do a conceptual analysis of what it means to be a cause of the universe, and a striking number of divine attributes can be identified.

[satjas]

Hey TM

>Whatever begins to exist has a cause. The universe began to
>exist. Therefore, the universe has a cause.
>You can do a conceptual analysis of what it means to be a
>cause of the universe, and a striking number of divine
>attributes can be identified.

Before we all start bashing our heads on the wall could i just say that whatever caused the existence to begin, only knows, the universal cause. Our's will only be a feeble, futile attempt to analyse the reason which God only knows, quite literally. I would suggest that it will make no difference whatsoever if you knew why, but that if you did you would then have no reason to ask.............i'm sure somewhere along the line you are going to invoke the 'word' of God.....hmmmm.

-the paradigm shifter......God's friend.

[TeamManager]

Satjas,

To you it makes no diference but what about the many others ...like ATLian...who believe that things just poped into existence, encaused, out of nothing.

>I would suggest that it will make no difference whatsoever if
>you knew why, but that if you did you would then have no reason to ask

I am starting to understand your purpose in everything ....nothing?

[satjas]

hey TM

>To you it makes no diference but what about the many others
>...like ATLian...who believe that things just poped into
>existence, encaused, out of nothing.
>>I would suggest that it will make no difference whatsoever
>if
>>you knew why, but that if you did you would then have no
>reason to ask
>I am starting to understand your purpose in everything
>....nothing?

Ok i can understand that you did not understand what i said....let me simplify it further....it means that even if you try to find out.....so what? what and how will it help you towards your future? The only way you will ever know is by asking God, by merging with that Energy that created you because only that energy knows why it did so...........please do not hit me with low blows since you have no idea what my purpose in everything is.....i try and explain things logically to you....remember, logic, science and God can never contradict each other.

-the paradigm shifter.......God's friend.

[Coach]

TM,
Kalam? Wow! I never thought you had a thing for Islamic Philosophy.

[jarabuon]

>....remember, logic, science and God can never
>contradict each other.
>

Exactly... man made religions are the ones with contradictory teachings.

[ATLian]

TM:

>Whatever begins to exist has a cause. The universe began to
>exist. Therefore, the universe has a cause.

I think I've said this before. The fallacy with this theory is it assumes EVERYTHING apart from god had a cause. If you can argue that god wasn't caused, why can't we argue that the universe wasn't caused?


>To you it makes no diference but what about the many others
>...like ATLian...who believe that things just poped into
>existence, encaused, out of nothing.

Eh - I don't believe that the universe popped out from nothing. I have no freaking idea how the universe came into being. I just don't believe in the theory of creation.

[TeamManager]

>TM,
>Kalam? Wow! I never thought you had a thing for Islamic
>Philosophy.

Coach,
I had to get your attention.

But I was definately heading towards the direction of Christian philosopher John Philoponus (of Alexandria, Egypt) 4th century.
I will admit that al-Ghazali (1058 to 1111) 'stole' the idea and made it famous.

Now I have you attention....