[TeamManager]

@Neoblack
Karibu, long time no see...


How in heavens name do Atheist who put all the BELIEVE, FAITH and HOPE in there being NO GOD start describing and discussing God.
Don't you think that their continual obsession to discuss/agrue about something that does 'not exist' is either pure madness or 'simply away to convince themselves that they are right'

One surely requires MORE faith to believe in NO God that one requires to believe in God.

Life is just but a vapour, don't waste it.

[D.G.E.T.]

Hey TM they're coming out the woodwork eh! You people need to stop arguing about semantics and reason logically. God KNOWS he's is God - not having anyone above him doesn't make him an atheist! BTW I don't know what dictionaries you people are using but mine describes an atheist as -

a·the·ist ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-st)
n.

One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods.

- show me one instance when God has denied his own existence. You people be rational, we all know you're all just trying to put TM on the spot. Leave the man alone - at least respect him for his unshakable stand for his religion. I know he's a better Christian that me if nothing else.

[ATLian]

>How in heavens name do Atheist who put all the BELIEVE, FAITH
>and HOPE in there being NO GOD start describing and discussing
>God.

TM, I have never said that god doesn't exist. To categorically say that god doesn't exist is to say that you know everything in the universe, and of all those things you know, god wasn't among them, so he doesn't exist. Of course there's no way an atheist can correctly say that he KNOWS god doesn't exist, because nobody - even believers - KNOWS whether or not there's a god.

The difference between theists and atheists is, theists BELIEVE there's a god, while atheists DON'T BELIEVE there's a god, but both of us DON'T KNOW! Maybe we're right, maybe you're right, although I suspect we're right mainly because we haven't seen any logical rational evidence to prove god exists. That's the only difference. The reason why I discuss god so much is because MAYBE he does exist, and I'm missing the evidence that will help me see him.

>One surely requires MORE faith to believe in NO God that one
>requires to believe in God.

The more amazing, incredulous, ridiculous, ludicrous, etc, an UNPROVEN assertion is, then the MORE faith one requires to believe in that assertion. Remember those horned horses from fairy tales called unicorns - OK, let's substitute "God" in your above sentence with "7 legged Unicorns". Are you honestly saying that your sentence will still hold water. Yaani Peter, who believes in 7 legged unicorns, requires LESS faith to believe in those unicorns, than Paul, who believes that it's total hogwash? I think it's the other way around, you guys need some crazy amounts of faith - kwanza blind faith - in order to put away all rationality and believe to a point where you live your life based on this unseen thing.


>Don't you think that their continual obsession to
>discuss/agrue about something that does 'not exist' is either
>pure madness or 'simply away to convince themselves that they
>are right'

When it comes to amazing assertions - isn't the burden of proof laid on the ones that make ludicrous assertions? As in, if I came and told you guys that I'd seen the unicorn, wouldn't it be up to me to try proof to you guys that it exists, and not up to you non-believers to proof that it doesn't exist? In other words, isn't atheism the default position everyone should have, before being convinced that a god exists? And if that's so, doesn't it mean that believers are the ones going thru "pure madness", coz they are always trying "to convince themselves that they are right"

TM, one last hypothetical question for you: If I told you to enter a certain room in which you'd find absolute total proof that there is no god, would you enter the room or would you decline and chose to keep living your life as you currently live it right now? Again, the question is hypothetical, so please don't say "there's no such room so the question doesn't hold water..." etc.

[TeamManager]

Is Atheism or Free thought A Religion?

http://pages.zdnet.com/ghostwalker/id35.html

ATLian and other Atheist,
All this time you have blindly followed a faith system.

[ATLian]

>Is Atheism or Free thought A Religion?

From my understanding of the definition of religion, a religion must have a deity, or a higher state like Nirvana in Bhuddism, as well as life after death (whether it's living forever in hell or heaven, ama re-incarnating). Since atheism has none of these beliefs, it cannot qualify as a religion.

>http://pages.zdnet.com/ghostwalker/id35.html

TM, if you use this COF's definition of atheism and religion as your absolute definition, heck, I can use David Koresh and his nutcase followers at Waco, Texas, ama the prophet in Uganda who committed mass suicide with his followers as definitions of Christianity and how to worship god. Of course if you want to discredit atheism, you'll look around for the most negative crap out there.


>ATLian and other Atheist,
>All this time you have blindly followed a faith system.

Finally, it's an oxymoron to call an atheist a blind follower because most atheists are atheists since they cannot find any tangible evidence that a supreme being exists. Christians onthe other hand are blind followers because they cannot their prove god exists, they just have to believe blindly and hope that at the end of the day, Christianity wasn't just another hoax.

The only reason I used to be a Christian is because I was born into a Christian famo, as in, if I was born a Chute ama an Arab, I'd have been a Hindu or a Muslim respectively. People born into those religions follow blindly coz thats all they know - I chose to be an atheist after being unable to find any evidence that god exists, while finding plenty of logic to indicate that he doesn't exist.

[patapata]

"The only reason I used to be a Christian is because I was born into a Christian famo, as in, if I was born a Chute ama an Arab, I'd have been a Hindu or a Muslim respectively. People born into those religions follow blindly coz thats all they know - I chose to be an atheist after being unable to find any evidence that god exists, while finding plenty of logic to indicate that he doesn't exist."

->Just hold on one second, ATLian, why do you assume that all believers simply have blind faith? You cite lack of evidence as a reason for your atheism. But hundreds see evidence for the existence of a superior being in the world around them and in their daily experiences. They believe, not just because they were born into faithful families, but because god's existence is evident to them. Not all faith is blind.
->It's more a question of how you read and interpret the environment around you. We are all receptive to different types of stimuli depending on who we are. To someone who can read Kanji, the street signs in Japan make sense. To someone who cannot, they are unintelligible. To someone who is receptive to the idea that a superior being exists, an amoeba could be evidence for a creator-god. To someone who isn't, that does not suffice as evidence for god's existence. The theist and atheist live in the same environment, but are receptive to different 'languages'. The signs and objects around them will have different meanings to each one. Who's to say who's right?

[TeamManager]

@ATLian,

>The only reason I used to be a Christian is because I was born into a Christian famo

Ati..., you used to be a Christian? I am now getting confused. PLease explain to me YOUR DEFINATION of who a CHRISTIAN is. Please!

A Christian? Hope this is not some wicked Joke.

[ATLian]

>Ati..., you used to be a Christian? I am now getting confused.
>PLease explain to me YOUR DEFINATION of who a CHRISTIAN is.
>Please!
>
>A Christian? Hope this is not some wicked Joke.


TM, you've gone "ad hominem" just because I don't believe in your god.

You assume that I wasn't once what you would define as a Christian. I once believed in all the Christian tenets, including that I could only go to heaven if I got saved (although I never did get saved). I just started questioning, and after a lot of reading and soul searching, I saw the light and rid myself of gods who want me to kiss ass every single day so I can get a chance to live with them forever in heaven.

It's a peaceful existence BTW, not having to pray to god daily to forgive me for sins that I haven't even committed yet, praying to god end all wars even if he was responsible for almost every war in the Bible and is the reason behind most wars that are currently going on right now, etc.

[satjas]

Hey ATlian

>It's a peaceful existence BTW, not having to pray to god daily
>to forgive me for sins that I haven't even committed yet,
>praying to god end all wars even if he was responsible for
>almost every war in the Bible and is the reason behind most
>wars that are currently going on right now, etc.

You got that right friend......i have total respect for one who takes his/her own stand.....look for your own path for that choice was given to you by God too. Thanks.

-the paradigm shifter......God's friend.

The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.

[papillon]

Interesting topic.

I especially like the arguments brought fourth by Atlian.