[Whitehead]

It takes a long long time to understand the tenets of Christianity. I have been a Christian on and off for most of my life and it took me at least 22 years to get the "aha".

In retrorespect, my childhood played the role of introducing me to basic Christian ideas like Bible and the scripture and commandments. However it did not answer some of the very critical questions that sometimes not even a seasoned Priest can help you with. Your dilemna is a concept called "Theodicy". You are not alone. Most believers go through the WHY phase...this is a time to ask questions like Why God allows evil to exist when he has the power to make it go away with a minimal whiff of his hand. Why did God choose Israel and not everyone else. Why does God allow us to sin and then punish us for it etc.

Sometimes you even find yourself battling with the concept of a 'Universal God'. Why for example does Christianity consider itself as the absolute religion when there are other equally "pious" religions like buddhism and Hinduism.

The key to understanding Christianity is Understanding Jesus Christ. Before you Understand Jesus, prophecies about him, his birth, his life, his teachings, his suffering, miracles, death and resurrection, you will continue to wallow in ambivalence of believing in God versus living as if he is not there (because of things that seem to happen when he claims to be there). You have to study Jesus to understand who he is. His role in the whole salvation of humanity (condemned to death for sin), his deity and how he became man, and his current role as our lawyer in Heaven. It is through Jesus that we are able to appeal to the Grace of God. That is why you cannot reach God through other religions like Buddhism, Islam etc...Jesus is the way, truth and life. No one comes to the father except through him. Man's second pact with God was made through the death of Jesus on the cross and with these new rules were established for communicating with God. Whereas before man reached God through offering animal sacrifice, that covenant was abolished when a new one was made through Christ.

I know it will be a long long way to getting your "aha" moment but you get closer to that by trying and trying again. Don't give up. You will get it if you keep trying.

WH.

[monkeyjos]

That is why you cannot
>reach God through other religions like Buddhism, Islam
>etc...Jesus is the way, truth and life.

I understand what you are trying to say, but the thing is this, you are offering a Christian point of view. How exactly do you tell this to a Buddhist or a Muslim who is satisfied and convinced that he can actually reach God through his own ways which are not christian at all? In other words, how the hell do you know? You are just another human that came into this world and found that your ancestors were christians so you went for it. What would have happened if your parents were Muslims? Is there a chance that you would still be making the above statement if that was the case?

...OK, this goes for Muslims, Buddhist...etc. If there are some brothers out there from these different religions, maybe you can bless us with some insight from your own point of view.




Psychiatrists say that 1 out of 4 people are mentally ill.Check 3 friends.If they're OK, youre it.

[Whitehead]

Monkeyjos..

I told you already. Understanding Christianity requires spending time with God. You already have bits and pieces of information and you need to add to that. You are right. Part of that involves learning about other religions. I myself for example have done extensive and in-depth studies of other religions.

When you have a good knowledge base behind you, little by little the pieces start to add. You begin to notice consistencies and inconsistencies in various religious paradigms. You in fact find that a lot of the "other" religions by implication do support some of the tenets of Christianity while condemning their own without even noticing it.

___

And that is the mind part. An equally critical part is the spiritual part. You have to move away from the physical realm into the spiritual realm to understand how all these add up together. That also includes doing things that in your rational mind you would find "primitive" from your agnostic point of view. Things like asking God to show you the way even though you have doubts that he is there in the first place.

One day everything just makes sense and you get it. But like I said it doesn't happen by magic. You have to work really hard at it and with a sincere wish to find the truth.

___

But even then it will be another journey. Now that you know the truth, can you abide by it? I think that sometimes ignorance is bliss. Knowing what is right is like poison to the soul. It kills you everytime you contradict it...

Anyways baadaye.

[petermaumau]

Sometimes It is Not necesarrily a long Journey though I agree with you it can be...Jesus actually gave a parable about It when he was talking about those who find a pearl after serching for it after a long time and to others it happens almost instantly they do find it..the message is still the same >>When Jesus assumes the right Place in our lives,we accept Him and give Him the reins of our lives how He changes us..the biggest obstacle is having enough faith to try Him..what If He changes us we ask..what will happen to my friends,will i have to be like those lifeless "saved" people I see..
Try him I say,if he don't Move you ,move on..the cost of not trying are a bit too steep if god is really going to judge us justly for our sins..I left Mine with Jesus...

[PineApps]

Monkeyjios,

Looking for an alternative that is more homegrown?? here is something that might be of interest.

http://www.ifafoundation.org/library-psych.html

[Paudah_Paf]

This is one of the problems that have nagged at me all my sentient life. I seek only to contribute and not to detract from anyone's point of view. Please do not take my opinions as edicts, they are but the musings of another confused being.....
All my life I have known Muslims, Hindus and Traditional African Believers (Animists is it?) who have been BETTER human-beings than a vast majority of Christians I know. Just as we (Christians) have our bad seeds, so do these other religions and beliefs. Similarly, they also have truly outstanding virtuous characters. While I know that man cannot redeem himself through deeds I sometimes wonder what will happen to the one who lived a good life and died but was not a professed believer. My belief in an all-knowing and loving God demands that he will be able to look at the hearts of these people and take them in. Many of the arguments and ideas we refer to in discussions such as these are based on doctrines prescribed by fallible men. As I myself am. So my view is to live life the best you can. Actually try to be a better person everyday of your life. There is a little voice in all of us that knows the difference between right and wrong. Choose right as often as you can. And when you do go wrong make amends, if only with yourself. Believe in what you will or do not believe at all. Only be good to all those around you. And if I must be damned in the end, let it not be because I did not love my fellow men. I can never satisfy myself that I have found the all-encompassing answer but I do know that I will. Sadly though, I will then be beyond sharing it with anyone for I shall be dead. So for the little time I have on this earth, I'll live my life as best I know how, and listen to other's advice along the way. Maybe like the Apostle Paul I will one day be able to say I have fought the good fight and finished my race and be content with that.

[petermaumau]

Well,
I will tell you this Not because I am any better than you,Infact I will agree with You that some "christian" folk are best to run away from ...
God is just,he is a good God..He knows you are not able to be perfect and for that he made only one excuse for us to be accepted into Heaven..(If You want to know that God does not tolerate sin just look at the way He Let Jesus die)
The Man Jesus christ..John 3:16 is really the only way it can be put simply..For God so loved the world,that He gave His only Begotten son,that whosoever Believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting Life..

Do not be fooled or fool yourself with your good works..It Is the sin that is in you that will convict you..we are all sinners but those who accept Jesus as a sacrifice enough for their sins are the ones who get in..
If you say you can get in by good works then in effect you say that Jesus' death on the cross was of no use and call God a liar, now you can see why God will be angry..

[Socks]

>This is one of the problems that have nagged at me all my
>sentient life. I seek only to contribute and not to detract
>from anyone's point of view. Please do not take my opinions as
>edicts, they are but the musings of another confused
>being.....
>All my life I have known Muslims, Hindus and Traditional
>African Believers (Animists is it?) who have been BETTER
>human-beings than a vast majority of Christians I know. Just
>as we (Christians) have our bad seeds, so do these other
>religions and beliefs. Similarly, they also have truly
>outstanding virtuous characters. While I know that man cannot
>redeem himself through deeds I sometimes wonder what will
>happen to the one who lived a good life and died but was not a
>professed believer. My belief in an all-knowing and loving God
>demands that he will be able to look at the hearts of these
>people and take them in. Many of the arguments and ideas we
>refer to in discussions such as these are based on doctrines
>prescribed by fallible men. As I myself am. So my view is to
>live life the best you can. Actually try to be a better person
>everyday of your life. There is a little voice in all of us
>that knows the difference between right and wrong. Choose
>right as often as you can. And when you do go wrong make
>amends, if only with yourself. Believe in what you will or do
>not believe at all. Only be good to all those around you. And
>if I must be damned in the end, let it not be because I did
>not love my fellow men. I can never satisfy myself that I have
>found the all-encompassing answer but I do know that I will.
>Sadly though, I will then be beyond sharing it with anyone for
>I shall be dead. So for the little time I have on this earth,
>I'll live my life as best I know how, and listen to other's
>advice along the way. Maybe like the Apostle Paul I will one
>day be able to say I have fought the good fight and finished
>my race and be content with that.

Paudah, what you say is very true. I don't belive also that God would send a good muslim to hell just because he is not christian. I remember reading a book by a certain South African Sangoma where he says that all humans worship the same God. People like Mohamed, Jesus, Buddha were all sent to their respective societies to bring people back to God. If you look at all the religions in the world, the basic teachings are all the same, the differences are due to cultural influence.

For example, People say Islam looks down on women but that is not true. ARABS look down on women. Arabs are Nomadic people and if you look at all Nomadic cultures in the world e.g. Maasai, Somalis, Arabs etc., you will see that the status of women is low. This cultural aspect of arab culture was integrated into ISlam hence making it what it is today.

Today, Christianity is seen to be more open than other religions e.g allowing Women priests. However, this is due to the Cultural influence of the Womens movement for equality in the western world. Christianity has never really been open to women ever since Eve got us kicked out of that wonderful garden we used to frolick in.

By the way, if the catholic church allowed women priests, would men go to them for Confession??? I myself don't think so. Mostly due to the fact that i am partly a pervert.

As for peterMaumau, i find it funny that a person like you who is such a faithful christian chose a name that ends with maumau, from a people who believed that all Kikuyus ahould practice the Kikuyu traditional religion rather than the imported Christianity.

[petermaumau]

"A flower by any other name would smell as sweet."..petermaumau or not does Not mean that I am for the Maumau way of Life..I do Not spot dreadlocks,not that I have a problem with them..and generally have no Idea what kind Of religion the Maumau practiced
anyway
<I don't belive also that God would send a good muslim to hell just because he is not christian. I remember reading a book by a certain South African Sangoma where he says that all humans worship the same God. >
Whether or Not you believe It it will happen..
You may not believe in gravity but It certainly has an effect

Anyway Jesus Is the Only way ,try him and see

[TeamManager]

Someone is missing the reason why men and women would be allowed into God's presence,- it is NOT because someone is 'GOOD'. God uses HIS standards to measure our GOODNESS and the Bible say that WE have all fallen short of the GLORY of God. The standard is GOD. Christians accept their shortness in meeting God's standard and therefore the y ACCEPT Jesus to take their penalty.


And whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, giving thanks to God.
Col. 3:17