[petermaumau]

Believer or non believer the creation account In Genesis 1 still remains a contentious to most...It Is allright ,and even expected, to doubt if you believe that the whole bible is a lie anyway but really quite dangerous for a proffesing Christian.
In a recent survey, 95% of Americans interviewed did not believe that the world ,and indeed the Universe,came into being independently and spontaneously.But,in a separate question, still about 95 % believed that there was some form of evolution involved with creation,and therefore relegate the creation story to a suggestion and at best an allegory ( an analogous story) of what happened.
Believing that the bible's account is not accurate is really dangerous for anyone,more so for a believer.The reason is that if you do not believe on part of God's word,what is the basis for believing the rest.. In retrospect I remember my CRE teacher teaching that there are two separate stories of creation in Genesis ( perhaps refering to the
way the making of Man is described twice In Gen 1:27 and 2:7) and suggested that the whole creation story was not a direct account,but I now beg to differ.
If you choose to believe that evolution is the way to go,in part or fully then consider a few facts:
Excerpts from "Grace To You"..A radio broadcast by Dr Charles stanley

-All evidence of the period of eveolution claasified as ramapithecus has been relegated to that of apes
-Dr Charles Oxnad,an anatomical expert in the university of Southern california concluded on analysis of evidence for Astrolopithecus that it belonged to Apes
-Dr Richard Leakey (On talking about evolution): "we are still doing too much guesssing"
-Dr Mary Leakey (still on the same subject) : "I do not believe it is possible to fit the Homonoids in any particular pattern".
- The oldest bones ever classified are given the age 4.5 billion years,but they are a man's bones..therefore there was no evolution during that period( if indeed man has been there for 4.5 Billion Years
-The dating system used is very subjective .Evolutinary anthropologists use the so called Uniformaterian Dating system..Made By them for them..
I think there is possibility for exageration ,don't you?


If not entirely convinced..atleast correct the above arguments against evolution.

When all is said,the Biblical account of creation is valid..or the whole bible is not to be believed..Great things happen when we believe the bible to be the True word of God...

[BenShaw]

If you're going to be a Christian, be a good Christian. If you're going to be a Muslim, be a good Muslim. If you're going to be a ( ) be a good ( ). To all the faithful, let the Gods fight their own wars and there will be peace on earth.

[Mbajuni]

I do not believe in evolution but intelligent creation. I.E. God created man who is the perfect of all beings that is able to adapt in every environment ever handed down be it physically or through using his/her brains. Thus Adam was the FIRST man (Homo Sapien to teh scientist) but God fashioned us over a period of time. He sirst created one group of beings, and THEN fashioned us. I am muslim so to many (both Muslims and christians) this may sound weird but look at how beautifully the Quran fits with the evidence found of fossils etc...

Please note that I just try to show that the Quran does not CONTRADICT evolution but at the same time, it does not SUPPORT IT. I am not saying what happenned EXACTLY but suggesting that if we were to compare what the Quran says to the EVIDENCE (Not the theory of evolution), we will see they can fit fit. The evidence is the bones etc not what Darwin say so before you argue with me saying that I suggest man "came" from monkeys, note that evolution is just ANOTHER explanation for the bones. This is my poke at my own explanation according to my religion.
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Starting with creation...so what does the Quran say happenned??

[7.11] And certainly We created you, THEN We fashioned you, THEN We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam. So they did obeisance except Iblis; he was not of those who did obeisance.

[4.1] O people! be careful of (your duty to) your Lord, Who created you from a single being and created its mate of the same (kind) and spread from these two, many men and women; and be careful of (your duty to) Allah, by Whom you demand one of another (your rights), and (to) the ties of relationship; surely Allah ever watches over you.

****So...Adam was the FIRST HOMO SAPIEN after being fashioned from whatever it was before. Not necessarily as individual but fashioned as a plural group of species. But HE was the FIRST of OUR KIND i.e. Homo Sapiens/people/humans but NOT beings because beings can stand for anything. But how do we know there was a group before Adam???

[2.30] And when your Lord said to the angels, I am going to place in the earth a khalif, they said: What! wilt Thou place in it such as shall make mischief in it and shed blood, and we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness? He said: Surely I know what you do not know.

***So if God is the only one who is all-knowing, how did the angels know man will be mischevious and shed blood?? An explanation could be that there was a previous being created that resembled man with behaviour and looks. But how else do we know that there were some others before us?

[2.21] O men! serve your Lord Who created you and those before you so that you may guard (against evil).

[10.34] Say: Is there any one among your associates who can bring into existence the creation in the first instance, then reproduce it? Say: Allah brings the creation into existence, then He reproduces it; how are you then turned away?

[17.99] Do they not consider that Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth, is able to create their like, and He has appointed for them a doom about which there is no doubt? But the unjust do not consent to aught but denying.

***Ok fine, but how long was this fashioning creationing thing going on coz from what scientists say, the bones date a million years. But the bible says six days?? Well according to the Quran...

[11.7] And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six PERIODS-- and His dominion (extends) on the water-- that He might manifest to you, which of you is best in action, and if you say, surely you shall be raised up after death, those who disbelieve would certainly say: This is nothing but clear magic.

[7.54] Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six PERIODS of time, and He is firm in power; He throws the veil of night over the day, which it pursues incessantly; and (He created) the sun and the moon and the stars, made subservient by His command; surely His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

***So Allah says periods not necessarily days...so we are getting closer. But waaaaaaait a minute! Scientists found that life started from water???

[21.30] Do not those who disbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were closed up, but We have opened them; and We have made of water everything living, will they not then believe?

**Ok fine, but can GOD reaaaaaaaaally do this??

[59.24] He is Allah the Creator, the Maker, the Fashioner; His are the most excellent names; whatever is in the heavens and the earth declares His glory; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.

So as you reflect on the clear proof please finish off with this small reading to sum up all that I have said. Since no being on earth says anything better than God Himself, I will plagiarize his words... (Please note the second last paragraph the most)

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[27.59] Say: Praise be to Allah and peace on His servants whom He has chosen: is Allah better, or what they associate (with Him)?
[27.60] Nay, He Who created the heavens and the earth, and sent down for you water from the cloud; then We cause to grow thereby beautiful gardens; it is not possible for you that you should make the trees thereof to grow. Is there a god with Allah? Nay! they are people who deviate.
[27.61] Or, Who made the earth a restingplace, and made in it rivers, and raised on it mountains and placed between the two seas a barrier. Is there a god with Allah? Nay! most of them do not know!
[27.62] Or, Who answers the distressed one when he calls upon Him and removes the evil, and He will make you successors in the earth. Is there a god with Allah? Little is it that you mind!
[27.63] Or, Who guides you in utter darkness of the land and the sea, and Who sends the winds as good news before His mercy. Is there a god with Allah? Exalted by Allah above what they associate (with Him).
[27.64] Or, Who originates the creation, then reproduces it and Who gives you sustenance from the heaven and the earth. Is there a god With Allah? Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.
[27.65] Say: No one in the heavens and the earth knows the unseen but Allah; and they do not know when they shall be raised.
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[Pebbles_Nibbles]

I believe in creation - creation of the Biblical account. An acquaintance once told me that he would not eat a rabbit because of his belief in reincarnation. I suppose he thought that if he ate a rabbit, he could be consuming his future father-in-law or sister-in-law or something. <sigh> Kuishi kwingi jamani....

Pebbles.

Now here comes the evolutionists....I have something to say when I have processed the material exhaustively. Darwinian theory supporters...be ready. tsk, tsk.

[safina]

Bring it on.And remember I will never get tired of screaming here on Mashada that,FAITH IS BUNKRUPCY OF INTELLIGENCE.The simple truth is that,we are all mere specs of dirt in the universe,yet we cannot accept it.

[Pebbles_Nibbles]

1. Creation = Fact - True/False

2. Evolution = Theory - True/False

[TeamManager]

>
>Bring it on.And remember I will never get tired of
>screaming here on Mashada that,FAITH IS BUNKRUPCY OF
>INTELLIGENCE.The simple truth is that,we are all mere
>specs of dirt in the universe,yet we cannot accept
>it.

Please share some of those TRUTH and FACTS that you have.

I am really eager to learn about the first dirt.

[safina]

Yea folks I am back.from the way you folks framed your questions,I can tell that we niggaz have a long way to go.In other words we are still pre-Einstein in our thinking.I know you folks expected stuff like,big bhang and blah blah.... from me.For your information,I am way far, or literally call it,post creation/evolution.To keep the wheels rolling,Creation theory/faith will never ever explain how the universe came into existance.It makes no sense to say there was one and no sense to say there wasn't one.
This question we are dealing with is a metaphysical question,boys and girls.The "last effect" question suffers from same problem.The only solution to this problem is found in introspective philosophies,which have a more subtle epistemology than that of Western system of scientific and metaphysical reasoning,and in which the universe is not caused or uncaused,but arises from a "causeless cause",something that transcends the habitual duality of our thinking on the issues,which lead us into contradictions.

[safina]

TM are you there

[Msoto]

>1. Creation = Fact - True/False
>
>2. Evolution = Theory - True/False

Now this is what is called religious fanatism. How is it creation is Fact? and Evolution is Theory? I see different types of human beings with different pigmentation...some black some white some brown. I argue that this process of adaptation to their different surroundings is in itself a process of natural selection.

Therefore why isnt Evolution true? Why is it people are not all one color? Are you trying to see that when I see someone as looking red/brown thats just theory and that my eyes are deceiving me?

Stop using fact ovyo ovyo. I understand what you believe but using that term in that way implies it to be the status quo. It isnt the status quo. If you want state that.....you can phrase it....I believe that creation is a fact.