[nefertiti]

Hello my fanatic pal,




>Since you only mentioned the word
>Non-Christians who on the face of this
>earth would have though of you
>DELIBERATELY ISOLATING HINDUISM AND
>BUDDHISTS???

Actually i also mention the words non belivers,muslims,Allah, Mungu, Ngai,Jehovah,Higher Power and i assumed that everybody would be able to link them with the appropriate names like Allah-Muslim, Ngai/Nyasae-African Traditional religious worshipers e.t.c

>>2. You asked me "What do you expect
>>pagans to know about God". Another bit
>>with which we disagree. A PAGAN is one
>>who worships any religion that is
>>neither Christian, Jewish or Muslim. Now
>>if i could speak to your great
>>grandfather or great great grandfather
>>who didn't practice any of the 3 above
>>and was thus branded a 'pagan', i am
>>sure that even he, Teejay would be able
>>to KNOW about God. How DARE you purport
>>to assume that the 'pagan' bushman
>>living in the Kalahari today could never
>>know anything about God! HOW DARE YOU
>>ASSSUME TO BE SOME SORT OF AUTHORITY
>>OVER WHO KNOWS MORE ABOUT
>>GOD??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>Do not let your belief in your Chritian
>>religion turn you into some sort of self
>>righteous bigot.


>How derogative of you to consider my
>stand in Christ bigotry.

Stop being paranoid.Read carefully not SELECTIVELY.Nowhere did i say that your stand on Christ was bigotry.In fact the topic has not been about your stand on Christ. I asked you not to let your Christian religion IN RELATION to your remarks about pagans not turn you into a BIGOT.


>That goes down well with me I have no
>problem I must say, however it will not
>make me alter the scriptural view in
>favour of visualization.

And again you are on another wavelenghth. Don't you get it? i haven't asked you to give up anything for anything else.You are feeling threatened for nothing-paranoia. My question was very simple. 'How do you visualise God or don't you?' Nobody is trying to trick you or lure you away from your beliefs. You are not being asked to choose anything.

>Does your bible mention anyone
>visualizing him??? I guess No. Therefore
>visualizing God would be more of your
>human imagination rather than that which
>come from the bible or quran. Therefore
>at is in this capacity, augmenting.

See again your off. The bible does not mention visualising Him. You did not have to tell me this.I know. You also do not need to tell anybody that this is human imagination.We have all already acknowledged this. Where is the arguement?
You thnk Visualization of God = Definition of God. WRONG.Go out and ask every single person who can/does visualize God and ask them this question. " Who do you think God is?". You will get many answers like Masaa_always and Xhee.
Visualising God and defining Him according to your understanding of Him are 2 different things. Things you seem unable to differenciate.




>You call on me to stop judging. Well
>brotha this word am quoting from is the
>one that judges both you and me.

When i told you to STOP JUDGING folks,i was refering to the pagans you assume know nothing about God. THE WORD TEEJAY! THE WORD! The word is not GOD! And the last time i checked only HE has that right. Stop using the bible as an excuse to judge other so called pagans!

>LOL…….Statement 5 above
>surely not only proves you rules you
>immature, but also redicules you in the
>sense that you don’t understand
>the metaphorical meaning of my original
>phrase.

Give me a break Teejay and have the decency to step up to the plate. Your little milk n' bones or rather 'great metaphor' was simply a cheap shot aimed at what you feel is my immaturity. Don't try to pretend it was some great 'spiritual advice' that your Christian self was feeling kind enuff to pass on . I know a bruised ego when i see one.




>Try to look at this discussion this way.
>Lets assume we met a person who does not
>acknowledge and has no idea whatsoever
>who God is then you ask them who God is.
>We would make a zombie out of that
>person. His answer would definitely be
>negative amidst perplexity leave alone
>visualise HIM and you tell me that Kids
>Just visualise God. Impossible unless
>they’ve had of HIM from someone.

Off course from someone!!!! Thats why in my original post i spoke of growing up (Christian or other) that may influence how we visualize him. Where did i say that children just visualize God as if from out of the blue?????


>>You said that it would be o.k to see
>>light because it represents His glory.
>>This is a Christian belief.
>
>Wrong brotha,Moses was the Leader of the
>Jews during the world’s greatest
>ever exodus, when he met God he his
>Glory (Light). As you read on you will
>find that every time he went up the
>mountain to speak to God he would come
>back to the people with his face
>shining. I don’t know about
>Muslims but Jews suddenly nurture the
>same belief as opposed to your argument.
>Unless of course you speak of some
>different Jewish community.

See this is what i'm talking about. You either don't read well or confuse stuff. In your message # 11 you said

"Of course there are stories like He is God of the whole in his hands which He creates theories or rather myths like the big hand from above.This in real meaning is ment to exalt His might and greatness.For that matter a metaphorical statement.Well visualising blinding light around Him is very o.k because that is part of His glory."---YOUR WORDS TEEJAY

Having said the above,i asked you a question and you answer by telling me 'no brotha Moses shinning face........." ????????????????????

Who has said anything about theories and myths? You stated that the meaning is to exalt Him. Time and time again i and others have stated that NOBODY has ever seen God so why do you assume that when we visualise Him it is not a form of exaltation????? You go on to say that it is metaphoriacal. Then why do you reason AS IF how i visualize him is a simile?? As IF I TRULY BELIEVE THAT GOD IS INDEED A LARGE HAND???? Even after i have stated over and over again that i have never seen God?????

>And neither does their religious
>literarture request them to visualise
>when praying.

Again i will ask you to read my posts.NOWHERE did i state that this was mandatory. I am also unaware of any religious material of any religion that requests its followers to visualise when praying.

>Your thinking should originate from the
>bible(for Christians) and quran(Moslem)
>but nothing more from you own
>imagination/visualization as you call
>it. As such God Is God. HE TELLS MOSES
>THAT I AM WHOM I AM. Not some big hand,
>not an old bearded
>mzee…………name it

Again your statement reflects your thinking that visualising God= Definition of God. WRONG.

Now earlier on you said you visualise goodness. I asked you to elaborate. you tried to con me into believing that your 'goodness' is undefinable i.e you could not come out and say EXACTLY what goodness you see. So tell me pal what exactly it is that you see, because i know that you are a mere being and so when you see godness, you see something definite. I DO NOT request that you DEFINE the term goodness spiritual or otherwise, I request that you give EXAMPLES of the goodness you see when you visualise God.

Please get back to me on the issue of your pagan great great grandfather too and his supposed inability to tell me anything about God because of his paganism.

And finally cease from quoting the bile on Eve. I read it all and it was all irrelevant to the topic at hand.

once again enjoy your bones.

nef.