Catholic women in unofficial ordination

pipitp · (#1 (**permalink**))

i hope that responses in this thread will answer my very long term nagging question .. "does the church discriminate against women???" if it does, are there good reasons to do so?

protestants allow women to be pastors so why shouldnt the catholics allow women to be priests and yet we read from the same bible???

read on....

Nine women have been ordained as Roman Catholic priests in a secret ceremony in Austria on Saturday which could lead to their excommunication from the church.

It is a protest against doctrine and church law which discriminates against women

The ordained women's' statement
The women, who are from Austria, Germany and the United States, gathered on a boat on the River Danube for the ordination.

The ceremony was conducted by Argentine Archbishop Romulo Braschi, who was himself ordained as a Roman Catholic priest but has since joined a church not recognised by the Vatican.

The ordination of the women is fiercely opposed by leaders of the Catholic Church in Austria and Germany, who described it as a "cult spectacle".

The simulated ordination of a woman is not only invalid, but it also blatantly contradicts the rules of the church

Maximillian Aichern
Bishop of Linz
The group, who include several pioneer theologians, argue that the Church's refusal to ordain women has no basis in the scriptures.

But Roman Catholic groups campaigning for the ordination of women distanced themselves from the group, saying it was better to fight within the church.

Austrian church authorities said that the ceremony represented "a fundamental break with the Roman Catholic Church".

"Only men can be ordained," said Maximillian Aichern, the bishop of Linz.

"The simulated ordination of a woman is not only invalid, but also blatantly contradicts the rules of the Church."

The Bishop of St Poelten, Kurt Krenn, warned that they could be excommunicated.

But BBC religious affairs correspondent Robert Pigott says that despite such warnings the Vatican may well decide that the best way of neutralising what is, effectively, a high profile protest, is to ignore the women and their future ministry.

'Sign of protest'

The Church's arguments have been dismissed as groundless by those taking part.

The Pope opposes women priests

"The Vatican is used to treating as sects anyone who differs with its dogma," Archbishop Braschi, now a member of the Jesus Rey Church, said.

"Both the doctrine of the ban on women priests and the law that is based on it reflect a heresy," wrote theologians Ida Raming and Iris Mueller - two of the women being ordained.

"The women who will take part in the 'illicit' ordination understand their action as a clear sign of protest - a protest against doctrine and Church law which discriminates against women."

They describe their defiance as an act of prophecy that could herald a fundamental leap within the Church.

The Catholic Church has always refused to ordain women because Jesus Christ selected only men as his apostles.

Supporters of women priests argue that this condemns women to a second class status in perpetuity - and makes the Church look increasingly out of touch with the lives of many of its followers.

link .. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/wor...00/2072020.stm

kamata123 · (#2 (**permalink**))

>>>i hope that responses in this thread will answer my very long term nagging question .. "does the church discriminate against women???" if it does, are there good reasons to do so?
protestants allow women to be pastors so why shouldnt the catholics allow women to be priests and yet we read from the same bible??? <<<

@ Pipitp,
Are you a Catholic? Do you know the doctrines of the Catholic church.?
To answer your question, I don't think the church discriminates against women.

http://www.grindalwald.com/abc/kamatashika1.gif

pipitp · (#3 (**permalink**))

kamata .. all i know about catholics and protestants is that we read from the same bible ... you can tell me more that's if ur a catholic

i read in corinthians .. cant remember the chapter and verse that women are not supposed to stand on the pulpit preaching and that they should funga vitambaa and all that .. then i asked a pastor of mine why they allow women to be pastors and he says that that particular chapter was addressed to the corinthians and not to us....

so i ask, do we twist the doctrines to suit us or what? is it against God's will that women represent in the church ama nini? sincerly it beats me.

kamata123 · (#4 (**permalink**))

I'll support this later but the bibles tend to differ slightly. I dont remember which seven books the Bible the Catholics use has that are not in the Bible the protestants use.
Anyone who knows can enlighten us.
And yes pipitp I'm a catholic

http://www.grindalwald.com/abc/kamatashika1.gif

pipitp · (#5 (**permalink**))

kamata lakini nyinyi catholics what do you say about such issues??? we differ in one too many ways

Check this out

1. The worship of Mary and use of the term "mother of god", originated at the council of Ephesus. (This puts Mary above god. worship of anyone or thing other than god is forbidden. ex.20:3-5; 34:14; isa.2:8). Nowhere in scripture is Mary shown to be any different or other than any other woman. The only difference is her being chosen to be the one by which Jesus would come into the world. Mary called Jesus her savior; she could not be saved with him, as all others. Lk.1:47.

2. The practice of directing prayers to Mary or dead saints. Jesus told us to pray to the father in his name. No place in scripture gives such an example. jn.14:13-14; 15:16

3. The kissing of the pope’s feet, a pagan custom (kissing the feet of emperors). Scripture forbids such practices. Acts 10:25-26; Rev.19:10; 22:9.

4. Worship of cross, of images and relics is against the bible, such practices are idolatry. Lev.26:1; Numb.33:52.)

5. The rosary, or prayer beads was introduced by peter the hermit (copied from Hindus and mohammedans). (The counting of prayers is a pagan practice and is expressly condemned by Christ. Mt.6:5-13. )

6. Confession of sins to the priest at least once a year was instituted by pope innocent iii, in the Lateran council. (The bible tells us to confess our sins directly to god. psa.51:1-10; Lk.7:48; 15:21; John 1:8-9.)

7. The immaculate conception of the virgin mary was proclaimed by pope pius ix in the year.(The bible states that all men, with the sole exception of christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a savior. Rom.3:23; 5:12; psa.51:5; lk.1:30,46,47.)

If you wanna see more of this you can go to http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/A...doctrines.html

bernie · (#6 (**permalink**))

@piptip

I think its important as kamata said u know the doctrines of the catholics before u put such dishearting accusations especially the 'pagan' word (i.e dont believe everything the sites potray). the rosary for example is a series of prayers where the life of jesus is summarised and the beads are not worshipped they r used just as blind pple use braille to study. As for the cross it reminds us of the death of jesus (that is the best i can rem from ma sunday school) and its not worshipped either we bow in honor of Christ.

But what really matters is not the place u worship from its ur heart and how well u relate with God. (ma own opinion).

"Think Wrongly If You Please,But Think For Yourself"

kamata123 · (#7 (**permalink**))

@Pipitp,
I guess if you read previous threads on Xtianity, u will find all that explained. I might look one up for u but I'm sure the issues u raise have been discussed before. Why do we put crosses on graves after we bury people???? Do u know the answer???

http://www.grindalwald.com/abc/kamatashika1.gif

Sleek Rick · (#8 (**permalink**))

Kwanza, I have to clarify one thing. The virgin Mary didn't give birth to God. In order for Jesus Christ to come to earth to do his bidding, he had to be legal here. By that I mean, because people exist in a bodily form, then Jesus Christ had to have a bodily form so that he can come to do what he had to do. Therefore, Mary did NOT give birth to the son, rather the baby, as the SON existed and always did. Do you understand me. The SON wasn't born, but the baby was. Mary borne the baby, but God gave the SON. I hope that is clear. That's why she's not above God.

And now are we going to have male nuns in the Catholic church? I'm just asking. I'm not a catholic myself, but it would only be fair. My understanding was that a priesthood is a brotherhood, and nuns are the female version of this, but again, I could be wrong, as I said, that's my understanding.

edd · (#9 (**permalink**))

@Pipitp
I do believe that both the Protestant and Catholic Church discriminate against women. The only reason that they do not ordain women is Tradition(i.e the way its "always" been done).

Think about it...What about racism? the Church Upheld racism/slavery for hundreds of years using various.....

I'll finish this later

AfricanPride · (#10 (**permalink**))

In general Christianity discriminates against women even though they say that we are all equal. Look at the male-female ratio in the bible and tell me if that is not discrimination. The accounts of gender relations in that book leave a lot to be desired. Sad fact is that there are women who believe that in the eyes of god they should be SUBMISSIVE to males. Catch me dead!