[Onyango72]

One of the most nagging questions in Christianity is whether or not baptism is necessary for salvation. The answer is a simple, "No." But you might ask, "If the answer is no, then why are there verses that say things like ‘. . .baptism that now saves you . . . ‘ (1 Pet. 3:21, NIV) and ‘ . . . Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins . . ." (Acts 2:38, NIV)? This is an honest question and it needs a competent answer. But, before I tackle this I need to lay a foundation of proper theology, then I'll address some of those verses that are commonly used to support the idea that baptism is necessary for salvation.

God Works Covenantally
First, you need to understand that God works covenantally. A covenant is a pact or agreement between two or more parties. The New Testament and Old Testaments are New and Old Covenants. The word "testament" comes from the Latin testamentum which means covenant. So, the Bible is a covenant document. If you don't understand covenant you cannot understand, in totality, the issue of baptism because baptism is a covenant sign.

Second, you need to know what baptism is. It is an outward representation of an inward reality. For example, it represents the reality of the inward washing of Christ's blood upon the soul. That is why it is used in different ways. It is said to represent the death of the person (Rom. 6:3-5), the union of that person with Christ (Gal. 3:27), the cleansing of that person's sins (Acts 22:16), the identification with the one "baptized into" as when the Israelites were baptized into Moses (1 Cor. 10:2), and being united in one church (1 Cor. 12:13. It is our outward proclamation of the inward spiritual blessing of regeneration. It comes after faith which is a gift of God (Rom. 13:3) and the work of God (John 6:28).

Third, the Bible says that it is the gospel that saves. "By this gospel you are saved..." (1 Cor. 15:2). Also, Rom. 1:16 says, "I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile."

What is the Gospel?

It is clearly the gospel that saves us. But what exactly is the gospel? That too is revealed to us in the Bible. It is found in 1 Cor. 15:1-4: "Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." The gospel is defined as the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our sins. Baptism is not mentioned here. Paul said that he came to preach the gospel, not to baptize: "I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel..." (1 Cor. 1:14-17). If baptism is necessary for salvation then why did Paul downplay it and even exclude it from the description of what is required for salvation? It is because baptism isn't necessary for salvation.

Another way of making this clear is to use an illustration. Let's suppose that a person, under the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 16:8), believed in Jesus as his savior (Rom. 10:9-10; Titus 2:13), and has received Christ (John 1:12) as Savior. Is that person saved? Of course he is. Let's further suppose that this person confesses his sinfulness, cries out in repentance to the Lord, and receives Jesus as Savior and then walks across the street to get baptized at a local church. In the middle of the road he gets hit by a car and is killed. Does he go to heaven or hell? If he goes to heaven then baptism isn't necessary for salvation. If He goes to hell, then trusting in Jesus, by faith, isn't enough for salvation. Doesn't that go against the Scriptures that say that salvation is a free gift (Rom. 6:23) received by faith (Eph. 2:8-9)?

Baptism Verses
Acts 2:38, "Peter replied, ‘Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.‘"
This verse is a tough one. It seems to say that baptism is part of salvation. But we know, from other scriptures that it isn't, lest there be a contradiction. What is going on here is simply that repentance and forgiveness of sins are connected. In the Greek, "repent" is in the plural and so is "your" of "your sins." They are meant to be understood as being related to each other. It is like saying, "All of you repent, each of you get baptized, and all of you will receive forgiveness." Repentance is a mark of salvation because it is granted by God (2 Tim. 2:25) and is given to believers only. In this context, only the regenerated, repentant person is to be baptized. Baptism is the manifestation of the repentance, that gift from God, that is the sign of the circumcised heart. That is why it says, repent and get baptized.

Acts 22:16, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name."
Is the washing away of sins done by baptism, the representation of the circumcised heart (Col. 2:11-12) which means you are already saved, or is it by the blood of Christ (Heb. 9:14; Rom. 5:9; Eph. 1:7)? Obviously it is the blood of Jesus and the washing here refers to the calling on Jesus' name.

Rom. 6:4, "We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."
Because the believer is so closely united to Christ it is said that the symbol of baptism is our death, burial, and resurrection. Obviously we did not die--unless, of course, it is a figurative usage.

Conclusion:
Baptism is not necessary for salvation. It is the initiatory sign and seal into the covenant of grace. As circumcision referred to the cutting away of sin and to a change of heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6; Jer. 4:4; 9:25,26; Ez. 44:7,9) baptism refers to the washing away of sin (Acts 2:38; 1 Pet. 3:21; Tit. 3:5) and to spiritual renewal (Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:11-12). The circumcision of the heart is signified by the circumcision of the flesh, that is, baptism (Col. 2:11-12).

[muombaji]

errrrr couldn't read whole thread ...can u summarise

the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step
http://www.debsfunpages.com/moresmiles/skipy.gif

[elixxxir]

are you asking or are you saying it actually is. that was a very long article. my answer anyway is no.

[ndume1]

>One of the most nagging questions in
>Christianity is whether or not baptism
>is necessary for salvation. The answer
>is a simple, "No." But you might ask,
>"If the answer is no, then why are there
>verses that say things like ‘. .
>.baptism that now saves you . . .
>‘ (1 Pet. 3:21, NIV) and ‘ .
>. . Repent and be baptized, every one of
>you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the
>forgiveness of your sins . . ." (Acts
>2:38, NIV)? This is an honest question
>and it needs a competent answer. But,
>before I tackle this I need to lay a
>foundation of proper theology, then I'll
>address some of those verses that are
>commonly used to support the idea that
>baptism is necessary for salvation.
>
>God Works Covenantally
>
>First, you need to understand that God
>works covenantally. A covenant is a pact
>or agreement between two or more
>parties. The New Testament and Old
>Testaments are New and Old Covenants.
>The word "testament" comes from the
>Latin testamentum which means covenant.
>So, the Bible is a covenant document. If
>you don't understand covenant you cannot
>understand, in totality, the issue of
>baptism because baptism is a covenant
>sign.

Why is Baptism a covenant sign? according to scripture where does that come from?

>
>If you don't think that God works
>covenantally then look at Heb 13:20
>which says, "May the God of peace, who
>through the blood of the eternal
>covenant brought back from the dead our
>Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the
>sheep" (NIV). The Eternal Covenant is
>the covenant between the Father and the
>Son before the creation of the world,
>whereby the Father would give to the Son
>those whom the Father had chosen. That
>is why Jesus says things like, "All that
>the Father gives me will come to me, and
>whoever comes to me I will never drive
>away" (John 6:37, NIV)
Jesus does n

. And, "And this
>is the will of him who sent me, that I
>shall lose none of all that he has given
>me, but raise them up at the last day"
>(John 6:39, NIV). And, "I pray for them.
>I am not praying for the world, but for
>those you have given me, for they are
>yours" (John 17:9, NIV).
>
>If you fail to understand that God works
>covenantally and that He uses signs as
>manifestations of his covenants
>(rainbow, circumcision, communion, etc.)
>then you will not be able to understand
How is communion a covenant sign? The Rainbow was the sign in the old covenant between God and all the living creatures on earth. It was to symbolize that God would never destroy all life on earth with water.


>where baptism fits in God's covenant
>system.
>
>Second, you need to know what baptism
>is. It is an outward representation of
>an inward reality.

WHERE IS THIS FROM? YOU ARE THEORIZING BASED ON SOMEBODY ELSE INTERPRETATION.

For example, it
>represents the reality of the inward
>washing of Christ's blood upon the soul.

WRONG. rOMANS 6:3-5 WHICH YOU HAVE PUT HERE DISPUTES THAT. where do you get the washing of the soul part?
you have to believe in it (Baptism) or your Faith is useless. why do I say that. the above scipture should be taken into context. Paul is speaking about the justifcation of man by Faith. it is the Faith in Jesus christ. Specifically his death on the cross and his ressurection, therby overcoming death and giving us life today, which is the power of the new covenant. without Jesus' ressurection your faith, christianity is useless, untrue and unapplicable because we would be still in the old testament, under the old covenant.


the big distinction here is that PAUL is talking to the saints. Not just anybody. the letter was written to the saints and therfore you have to know that there is a difference between a saint and a non saint.
Well, Romans 6:3-5 tells us that by Faith we (the saints) die to our old life of sin by being baptized into Jesus death. In baptism, they (past tense) the saints were buried with Jesus through baptism into his death in order that like jesus was raised from the dead, we rise to begin a new life by Gods Grace.

>That is why it is used in different
>ways. It is said to represent the death
>of the person (Rom. 6:3-5)


, the union of
>that person with Christ (Gal. 3:27), the
>cleansing of that person's sins (Acts
>22:16), the identification with the one
>"baptized into" as when the Israelites
>were baptized into Moses (1 Cor. 10:2),
>and being united in one church (1 Cor.
>12:13). Also, baptism is one of the
>signs and seals of the Covenant of Grace
>that was instituted by Jesus. It is in
>this sense a sacrament. A sacrament is a
>visible manifestation of something
>spoken. It is also said to be a visible
>sign of an inward grace. For example,
>the communion elements of bread and wine
>are called the sacrament of communion.
>When we take communion we are partaking
>of the sacrament.
What is a sacrament?

Jesus here is what Jesus says about Communion. its done in rememberance of Jesus.

>
>The Covenant of Grace is the covenant
>between God and Man where God promises
>to Man eternal life. It is based upon
>the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross and
>the condition is faith in Jesus Christ.
>As the Communion Supper replaced
>Passover, baptism, in like manner,
>replaces circumcision. "They represent
>the same spiritual blessings that were
>symbolized by circumcision and Passover
>in the old dispensation"

I dont agree with the above statement.

baptism and communion do not represent the same spiritual blessings as passover and communion.

how can baptism replace circumcision. Look at what Paul talks about in Romans 4 and 5.


(Berkhoff,
>Lewis, Systematic Theology, 1988, p.
>620.).
>
>Circumcision was the initiatory rite
>into the Abrahamic covenant; it did not
>save. A covenant is a pact or agreement
>between two or more parties and that is
>exactly what the Abrahamic covenant was.
>God said to Abraham, "I will establish
>my covenant as an everlasting covenant
>between me and you and your descendants
>after you for the generations to come,
>to be your God and the God of your
>descendants after you" (Genesis 17:7,
>NIV). God later instructed Abraham to
>circumcise not only every adult male,
>but also 8 day old male infants as a
>sign of the covenant (Gen. 17:9-13). If
>the children were not circumcised, they
>were not considered to be under the
>promissory Abrahamic covenant. This is
>why Moses' wife circumcised her son and
>threw the foreskin at Moses' feet. (Ex.
>4:24-25). She knew the importance of the
>covenant between God and her children.
>But at the same time we must understand
>that circumcision did not guarantee
>salvation to all who received it. It was
>a rite meant only for the people of God,
>who were born into the family of God
>(who were then the Jews).
>
>An important question here is how is it
>possible for an infant to be entered
>into a covenant with God. There could be
>a lot of answers given but the point
>remains: it was done; infants were
>entered into a covenant relationship
>with God -- through their parents.
>
>In the New Testament, circumcision is
>mentioned many times. But with respect
>to this topic it is specifically
>mentioned in Col. 2:11-12: "In him you
>were also circumcised, in the putting
>off of the sinful nature, not with a
>circumcision done by the hands of men
>but with the circumcision done by
>Christ, having been buried with him in
>baptism and raised with him through your
>faith in the power of God, who raised
>him from the dead" (NIV). In these
>verses, baptism and circumcision are
>related. Baptism replaces the Old
>Testament circumcision because 1) there
>was a New Covenant in the communion
>supper (Luke 22:20), and 2) in
>circumcision there was the shedding of
>blood but in baptism no blood is shed.
>This is because the blood of Christ has
>been shed.
>
>If you understand that baptism is a
>covenant sign, then you can see that it
>is a representation of the reality of
>Christ circumcising our hearts (Rom.
>2:29; Col. 2:11-12). It is our outward
>proclamation of the inward spiritual
>blessing of regeneration. It comes after
>faith which is a gift of God (Rom. 13:3)
>and the work of God (John 6:28).
>
>Third, the Bible says that it is the
>gospel that saves. "By this gospel you
>are saved..." (1 Cor. 15:2). Also, Rom.
>1:16 says, "I am not ashamed of the
>gospel, because it is the power of God
>for the salvation of everyone who
>believes: first for the Jew, then for
>the Gentile."
>
>What is the Gospel?
>
>It is clearly the gospel that saves us.
>But what exactly is the gospel? That too
>is revealed to us in the Bible. It is
>found in 1 Cor. 15:1-4: "Now, brothers,
>I want to remind you of the gospel I
>preached to you, which you received and
>on which you have taken your stand. By
>this gospel you are saved, if you hold
>firmly to the word I preached to you.
>Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
>For what I received I passed on to you
>as of first importance: that Christ died
>for our sins according to the
>Scriptures, that he was buried, that he
>was raised on the third day according to
>the Scriptures." The gospel is defined
>as the death, burial, and resurrection
>of Jesus for our sins. Baptism is not
>mentioned here.
>
>Paul said that he came to preach the
>gospel, not to baptize: "I am thankful
>that I did not baptize any of you except
>Crispus and Gaius, so no one can say
>that you were baptized into my name.
>(Yes, I also baptized the household of
>Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember
>if I baptized anyone else.) For Christ
>did not send me to baptize, but to
>preach the gospel..." (1 Cor. 1:14-17).
>If baptism is necessary for salvation
>then why did Paul downplay it and even
>exclude it from the description of what
>is required for salvation? It is because
>baptism isn't necessary for salvation.
>
>Additionally, in Acts, Peter was
>preaching the gospel, people got saved,
>and then they were baptized. Acts
>10:44-46 says, "While Peter was still
>speaking these words, the Holy Spirit
>came on all who heard the message. The
>circumcised believers who had come with
>Peter were astonished that the gift of
>the Holy Spirit had been poured out even
>on the Gentiles. For they heard them
>speaking in tongues and praising God.
>Then Peter said, ‘Can anyone keep
>these people from being baptized with
>water? They have received the Holy
>Spirit just as we have.' So he ordered
>that they be baptized in the name of
>Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to
>stay with them for a few days" (NIV).
>These people were saved. The gift of the
>Holy Spirit was on the Gentiles and they
>were speaking in tongues. This is
>significant because tongues is a gift
>given to believers, see 1 Cor. 14:1-5.
>Also, unbelievers don't praise God. They
>can't because praise to the true God is
>a deep spiritual matter that is foreign
>to the unsaved (1 Cor. 2:14). Therefore,
>the ones in Acts 10 who are speaking in
>tongues and praising God are definitely
>saved and they are saved before they are
>baptized. This simply isn't an
>exception. It is a reality.
>
>Let's Suppose...
>
>Another way of making this clear is to
>use an illustration. Let's suppose that
>a person, under the conviction of the
>Holy Spirit (John 16:8), believed in
>Jesus as his savior (Rom. 10:9-10; Titus
>2:13), and has received Christ (John
>1:12) as Savior. Is that person saved?
>Of course he is. Let's further suppose
>that this person confesses his
>sinfulness, cries out in repentance to
>the Lord, and receives Jesus as Savior
>and then walks across the street to get
>baptized at a local church. In the
>middle of the road he gets hit by a car
>and is killed. Does he go to heaven or
>hell? If he goes to heaven then baptism
>isn't necessary for salvation. If He
>goes to hell, then trusting in Jesus, by
>faith, isn't enough for salvation.
>Doesn't that go against the Scriptures
>that say that salvation is a free gift
>(Rom. 6:23) received by faith (Eph.
>2:8-9)?
>
>Saying that baptism is necessary for
>salvation is dangerous because it is
>saying that there is something we must
>do to complete salvation. That is wrong!
>See Gal. 2:21; 5:4.
>
>All right, so this sounds reasonable.
>But still, what about those verses that
>seem to say that baptism is part of
>salvation? I'll address those now. But,
>because this subject can become quite
>lengthy, in fact, sufficient for a book
>in itself, I'll only address a few
>verses and then only briefly.
>
>Baptism Verses
>
>John 3:5, "Jesus answered, ‘I tell
>you the truth, no one can enter the
>kingdom of God unless he is born of
>water and the Spirit.'"
>Some say that water here means baptism.
>But that is unlikely since Christian
>baptism hadn't yet been instituted. If
>this verse did mean baptism, then the
>only kind that it could have been at
>that point was the baptism of repentance
>administered by John the Baptist (Mark
>1:4). If that is so, then baptism isn't
>necessary for salvation because the
>baptism of repentance is no longer
>practiced. It is my opinion that the
>water spoken of here means the water of
>the womb referring to the natural birth
>process. Jesus said in verse three that
>Nicodemus needed to be born "again."
>This meant that he had been born
>once--through his mother. Nicodemus
>responds with a statement about how he
>can't enter again into his mother's womb
>to be born. Then Jesus says that he must
>be born of water and the Spirit. Then in
>verse 6 He says that "flesh gives birth
>to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to
>spirit.." The context seems to be
>discussing the contrast between the
>natural and the spiritual birth. Water,
>therefore, could easily be interpreted
>there to mean the natural birth process.
>
>I would like to add that there are
>scholars who agree with the position and
>some who do not. Some believe that the
>water refers to the Word of God, the
>Bible, and others claim it means the
>Holy Spirit. You decide for yourself.
>
>Acts 2:38, "Peter replied, ‘Repent
>and be baptized, every one of you, in
>the name of Jesus Christ for the
>forgiveness of your sins. And you will
>receive the gift of the Holy
>Spirit.‘"
>This verse is a tough one. It seems to
>say that baptism is part of salvation.
>But we know, from other scriptures that
>it isn't, lest there be a contradiction.
>What is going on here is simply that
>repentance and forgiveness of sins are
>connected. In the Greek, "repent" is in
>the plural and so is "your" of "your
>sins." They are meant to be understood
>as being related to each other. It is
>like saying, "All of you repent, each of
>you get baptized, and all of you will
>receive forgiveness." Repentance is a
>mark of salvation because it is granted
>by God (2 Tim. 2:25) and is given to
>believers only. In this context, only
>the regenerated, repentant person is to
>be baptized. Baptism is the
>manifestation of the repentance, that
>gift from God, that is the sign of the
>circumcised heart. That is why it says,
>repent and get baptized.
>
>1 Pet. 3:21, "and this water symbolizes
>baptism that now saves you also -- not
>the removal of dirt from the body but
>the pledge of a good conscience toward
>God. It saves you by the resurrection of
>Jesus Christ."
>This is the only verse that says that
>baptism saves. But, the NIV translation
>of the verse is unfortunate. A better
>translation is found in the NASB which
>says, "and corresponding to that,
>baptism now saves you." The key word in
>this section is the Greek antitupon. It
>means "copy," "type," corresponding to,"
>"a thing resembling another," "its
>counterpart," etc. Baptism is a
>representation, a copy, a type of
>something else. The question is "Of what
>is it a type?", or "Baptism corresponds
>to what?". The answer is found in the
>previous verse, verse 20: "who once were
>disobedient, when the patience of God
>kept waiting in the days of Noah, during
>the construction of the ark, in which a
>few, that is, eight persons, were
>brought safely through the water. 21And
>corresponding to that, baptism now saves
>you" (NASB). What does baptism
>correspond to? Is it the flood? Or, is
>it the ark? What was it that saved Noah
>and his family? Was it the water or the
>ark? Obviously, it was the Ark. Noah
>built and entered the ark by faith and
>was saved (Heb. 11:7). The flood waters
>destroyed the ungodly. Peter, when
>referring to the flood waters, refers to
>them as the means of destruction of the
>ungodly (2 Pet. 2:5; 3:6). It was the
>Ark that saved. Noah entered the ark by
>faith. Baptism here, in my opinion,
>refers to the Ark, not the waters. That
>is why the rest of the verse says, "not
>the removal of dirt from the body but
>the pledge of a good conscience toward
>God" which is consistent with what Paul
>said in Col. 2:11-12 where He equates
>baptism with being circumcised of heart.
>
>Acts 22:16, "And now what are you
>waiting for? Get up, be baptized and
>wash your sins away, calling on his
>name."
>Is the washing away of sins done by
>baptism, the representation of the
>circumcised heart (Col. 2:11-12) which
>means you are already saved, or is it by
>the blood of Christ (Heb. 9:14; Rom.
>5:9; Eph. 1:7)? Obviously it is the
>blood of Jesus and the washing here
>refers to the calling on Jesus' name.
>
>Rom. 6:4, "We were therefore buried with
>him through baptism into death in order
>that, just as Christ was raised from the
>dead through the glory of the Father, we
>too may live a new life."
>Because the believer is so closely
>united to Christ it is said that the
>symbol of baptism is our death, burial,
>and resurrection. Obviously we did not
>die--unless, of course, it is a
>figurative usage.
>
>Titus 3:5, "he saved us, not because of
>righteous things we had done, but
>because of his mercy. He saved us
>through the washing of rebirth and
>renewal by the Holy Spirit." The washing
>of rebirth can only be that washing of
>the blood of Christ that cleanses us. It
>is not the symbol that saves, but the
>reality. The reality is the blood of
>Christ.
>
>Conclusion:
>Baptism is not necessary for salvation.
>It is the initiatory sign and seal into
>the covenant of grace. As circumcision
>referred to the cutting away of sin and
>to a change of heart (Deut. 10:16; 30:6;
>Jer. 4:4; 9:25,26; Ez. 44:7,9) baptism
>refers to the washing away of sin (Acts
>2:38; 1 Pet. 3:21; Tit. 3:5) and to
>spiritual renewal (Rom. 6:4; Col.
>2:11-12). The circumcision of the heart
>is signified by the circumcision of the
>flesh, that is, baptism (Col. 2:11-12).
>
>One last thought: If someone maintains
>that baptism is necessary for salvation,
>is he adding a work, his own, to the
>finished work of Christ? If the answer
>is yes, then that person would be in
>terrible risk of not being saved. If the
>answer is no, then why is baptism
>maintained as being necessary the same
>way as the Jews maintained that works
>were necessary?

dude, I dont know how to put it to you, but this is more confusing than helpfull. I hope I can come back to finish on it.

[Onyango72]

ndume1,

I assume you are a Christian.....right? Well if you are then you know that Baptism does not save a person, it is believing (trusting) on Christ's finished work on the cross that saves a person. Read Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9-10. That is the point of the thread that I posted, even though it may be somewhat confusing. The point is baptism will never save mankind as some people proclaim. This is the reason I said that baptism is a symbol of what has already taken place in the life of a person who has already trusted Christ.

[muombaji]

Baptism takes away the original sin..thereby begins our journey of finding Christ.

the journey of 1000 miles begins with a single step
http://www.debsfunpages.com/moresmiles/skipy.gif

[ndume1]

>ndume1,
>
>I assume you are a Christian.....right?
>Well if you are then you know that
>Baptism does not save a person, it is
>believing (trusting) on Christ's
>finished work on the cross that saves a
>person.

Are you suggesting that if I am a christian I would know that? Who is a christian then? I am sure that you are also aware that even demons believe in Jesus but does that mean they are saved. James 2:19

But here is the Kicker. Rember that in Romans Paul is adressing the saints. Now the question is who is a saint? Today to put everyone/ourselves as saints in that context is wrong. why because the saints were already disciples/christians/saved.

On the otherhand Acts 16:31 should be looked at in context also.
v25:Paul and Silas are in Prison singing songs and praying to God. The prisoners are listening to them. V26-28: the earthquake breaks all chains setting everybody free, but no one escapes
and the prisoner is about to kill himself.
v29-30: The jailer falls trembling at Paul and Silas feet, he calls them sirs, and asks what must I do to be saved. why would he 1ST not rearrest them, or ask such a question in the first place. he Realized the power of God, and the kind of men Paul and Silas were. My Opinion is that he had heard of what they were preaching ealier and they must have been preaching a message of salvation.
V31: There response was, "believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. you and your house hold" WE ALL AGREE THAT HERE HE IS CALLED TO FAITH IN JESUS.
V32:then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house. they taught him what God expected of him as a believer and he was willing to go on.
V33:here, the Jailer shows his repentance, by his actions as he washes the mens wounds and then he is baptized. why did he get baptized at this hour? he could have waited the next week or the next year, but he and all his family get baptized in the middle of the night. why the urgency?
v34: The jailer continues to take care of them, brings them to his house, and he is in joy because he had come to believe in God.

Now That is not theonly account of someone becoming a believer in God/ saved/a disciple of christ/ a christian. look at Pauls account in Acts 22 AND you know the account of the begining of the Church in Jerusalem in Acts 2:
Read Acts 16:31, Romans 10:9-10.

>That is the point of the thread that I
>posted, even though it may be somewhat
>confusing. The point is baptism will
>never save mankind as some people
>proclaim. This is the reason I said that
>baptism is a symbol of what has already
>taken place in the life of a person who
>has already trusted Christ.

Baptism is not just a symbol, its neccessary for your salvation. Its for the forgiveness of your sins.

Remember that the doctrine of salvation by faith alone or by works is carefully explained in Romans, james and in other scriptures. Believing in of itself gives us faith, but faith without action is dead.

my conviction on the topic is that you have to be taught what the lifestyle of a christian is, what God expects from you biblically, then you need to understand what sin is and that it separets you from God, and that by Gods grace we can repent and therefore we have to know what Godly repentance is, not worldy repentance. In understanding repentance one has to know the role the cross plays here and after understanding the cross the role baptism plays in this. If one understands this and makes the decision to be a christian they have to count the costs and then understand the role of the church. we all make choices and even God gives us a clear choice to make.

[ndume1]

@muombaji

what is original sin?

[ocho]

@ dume 1
Original sin is the sin we have from Adam and Eve...Genesis

[ndume1]

@ocho

are you saying that because adam and eve sinned then you also have sin?

an infant born today, does it have sin also? ebu fafnua?