[Proletariat]

I think there is a very clear distinction between God and Jesus Christ, the prophet, the son of Joseph. Forget about the scripture, "if you have seen me you have seen the father."

Jesus acknowledged very well that he was not God, but sent by God. It is then wrong to say that Jesus is God. It is like saying that Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, or Mugo wa Kibiru are/were God.

When Jesus died on the cross, there was darkness, earthquake, and also the curtain split into two. The significance of the curtain spliting into two was two symbolize that all have access to God directly, not through anybody else.

Why do Christians pray God through Jesus Christ? Suppose I ommit Jesus Christ as an intermediary in my Prayers. Does it mean that God will not Listen to me?

Jesus Christ is portrayed as an infallible human being. He used to cry, laugh, even drove away people who had turned synagogue, not Church, a hide-out of thieves.

I believe every coin has two sides and there is some bad things about Jesus we are not told, and that is why he emerged as a "savior" of people.

In the books of Acts, it is written that a lot of truthful books written about Jesus were destroyed, and that was how the word came to be. Also Jesus Christ was the only philosopher who wrote no works.

People like Matthew who have written about him, never had even a chance to see him. This proves that those scribes who wrote about Jesus Christ could have written a corrupt account to depict Jesus as the most High.

When Alexandria Library in Egypt was destroyed, a lot of African history was lost and what emerged was speculative and corrupt history about Africa by Europeans, which has really distotred the true African History.

Could this be the same case about The New Testament, a false and corrupt account of Jesus Christ?

Jesus crucifixion(sp) on Golgotha was just an ordinary way of Jewish punishment. Before him others were crucified, and even after his death, others still underwent crucifixion.

According to me, Jesus Christ was just like any other Philosopher, prophet who happenned to preach an appealling gospel which mainly attracted women and other ignorant people, e.g Peter. In other words he won the race of prophets at that time. He overshadowed other prophets with the God message.

Even in politics, the leader who win the election is seen as the only one forgetting there were others still contesting. Too much good is said about him or her, since he/she has won the race.

Thus there is a great distiction between God and Jesus Christ, the son of Joseph.

[masaa_always]

On Christians who believe in Jesus, one truth is the fact that although there is only one God, yet in that one God there are three divine Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. There is only one divine nature, but there are three divine Persons. In human affairs, nature and person are “conterminous.” If there are three persons in a room, then there are three human natures; and if there is only one human present, then there is only one human person. So when we try to think of God as three persons possessing one and the same nature, we find ourselves batting our head against the ceiling.

That is why we call such truths of faith as that of the Blessed Trinity a “mistery” of faith. We believe it is so coz God says it is so; and he is all-wise and all-truthful. As just how it can be so, we must await God’s full unveiling of himself in heaven, to discover.

[mwananchi_]

Here's my take on the issue. This was in response to Muramati on the "Who Do You Perceive God to Be?" thread: http://www.mashada.com/dcforum/DCForumID15/101.shtml

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Muramati wrote:
"You cannot know God if you deny Christ"

I really don't see where Christ comes into play. God created me in His image. I am a child of God, and being male, I am a Son of God. I do not need to know anybody else be they angels, saints, or another son of God. My relationship with God should be personal and DIRECT. Anybody who comes between me and my God is a STUMBLING BLOCK, a DISTRACTION.

If I need redemption from my sins, my God is quite capable of doing that by Himself. He is an able God who can do it all by Himself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Muramati,
If God created humanity, then He is everybody's God whether they know it or not. The main issue I have with Judaism and Christianity is this belief that only they have the Keys to the Kingdom and only through them can you get to God.

Every person in the world has a direct access to God. They do not need some password, or some conduit or some middle-man or spirit or angel to get to Him. Access to God is free, unconditional, and DIRECT. God does not discriminate. He listens to every one of His creatures. We do not need any stumbling blocks between us and our God.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[ndume1]

>Here's my take on the issue. This was in
>response to Muramati on the "Who Do You
>Perceive God to Be?" thread:
>http://www.mashada.com/dcforum/DCForumID15/101.shtml
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Muramati wrote:
>"You cannot know God if you deny Christ"
>
>I really don't see where Christ comes
>into play. God created me in His image.
>I am a child of God, and being male, I
>am a Son of God. I do not need to know
>anybody else be they angels, saints, or
>another son of God. My relationship with
>God should be personal and DIRECT.
>Anybody who comes between me and my God
>is a STUMBLING BLOCK, a DISTRACTION.
>
>If I need redemption from my sins, my
>God is quite capable of doing that by
>Himself. He is an able God who can do it
>all by Himself.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Muramati,
>If God created humanity, then He is
>everybody's God whether they know it or
>not. The main issue I have with Judaism
>and Christianity is this belief that
>only they have the Keys to the Kingdom
>and only through them can you get to
>God.
>
Do not confuse yourself. Not all people who call themselves christians or jews are the real deal. I am sure you know that there is a big difference between calling yourself one thing and being that thing. You need to take issue with what God himself states. which if I am not wrong, you are refering to there being only one way to get to heaven and that is through God. (my assumption) If you do believe then in the God of Abraham, Moses and Joseph, the God who brought the Israelites out Of Egypt to the promised land, the God of King David, the God who sent Issaiah, Jeremiah, Hosea, and all the rest of the prophets and lastly the God of the first century church, then thats what you need to resolve with him. But if its another god, then that another story. The other thing that you may confuse yourself at to is, what and who you are identifying as THE GOD. Personaly, from my study and conviction I know that there is only one God, but I can make other things gods (money, education, friends, family, pleasure) by puting these things before the God I know, who is the God of the Bible and exists as he did, as he is and always will to the end of the ages.

>Every person in the world has a direct
>access to God. They do not need some
>password, or some conduit or some
>middle-man or spirit or angel to get to
>Him. Access to God is free,
>unconditional, and DIRECT. God does not
>discriminate. He listens to every one of
>His creatures. We do not need any
>stumbling blocks between us and our God.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you certain and sure about the above statement. Do not be fooled, not everyone has the same level playing field but its true that you have access to God for free and he loves us unconditionally, but he expects certain things from us and we have to understand these things. True we do not need any stumbling blocks, and even God says that if we cause anyone to stumble we are held responsible. But we do create our own distractions even for ourselves.

[shira]

>>Here's my take on the issue. This was in
>>response to Muramati on the "Who Do You
>>Perceive God to Be?" thread:
>>http://www.mashada.com/dcforum/DCForumID15/101.shtml
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Muramati wrote:
>>"You cannot know God if you deny Christ"
>>
>>I really don't see where Christ comes
>>into play. God created me in His image.
>>I am a child of God, and being male, I
>>am a Son of God. I do not need to know
>>anybody else be they angels, saints, or
>>another son of God. My relationship with
>>God should be personal and DIRECT.
>>Anybody who comes between me and my God
>>is a STUMBLING BLOCK, a DISTRACTION.
>>
>>If I need redemption from my sins, my
>>God is quite capable of doing that by
>>Himself. He is an able God who can do it
>>all by Himself.
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>Muramati,
>>If God created humanity, then He is
>>everybody's God whether they know it or
>>not. The main issue I have with Judaism
>>and Christianity is this belief that
>>only they have the Keys to the Kingdom
>>and only through them can you get to
>>God.
>>
>Do not confuse yourself. Not all people
>who call themselves christians or jews
>are the real deal. I am sure you know
>that there is a big difference between
>calling yourself one thing and being
>that thing. You need to take issue with
>what God himself states. which if I am
>not wrong, you are refering to there
>being only one way to get to heaven and
>that is through God. (my assumption) If
>you do believe then in the God of
>Abraham, Moses and Joseph, the God who
>brought the Israelites out Of Egypt to
>the promised land, the God of King
>David, the God who sent Issaiah,
>Jeremiah, Hosea, and all the rest of the
>prophets and lastly the God of the first
>century church, then thats what you need
>to resolve with him. But if its another
>god, then that another story. The other
>thing that you may confuse yourself at
>to is, what and who you are identifying
>as THE GOD. Personaly, from my study
>and conviction I know that there is only
>one God, but I can make other things
>gods (money, education, friends, family,
>pleasure) by puting these things before
>the God I know, who is the God of the
>Bible and exists as he did, as he is and
>always will to the end of the ages.
>
>>Every person in the world has a direct
>>access to God. They do not need some
>>password, or some conduit or some
>>middle-man or spirit or angel to get to
>>Him. Access to God is free,
>>unconditional, and DIRECT. God does not
>>discriminate. He listens to every one of
>>His creatures. We do not need any
>>stumbling blocks between us and our God.
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Are you certain and sure about the above
>statement. Do not be fooled, not
>everyone has the same level playing
>field but its true that you have access
>to God for free and he loves us
>unconditionally, but he expects certain
>things from us and we have to understand
>these things. True we do not need any
>stumbling blocks, and even God says that
>if we cause anyone to stumble we are
>held responsible. But we do create our
>own distractions even for ourselves.
>

'END IS JUSTIFIED BY THE MEANS'
Jesus is God..philosophers and scholars of the bible have spent their entire career lives tryin' to decipher how that is...jesus' disciples and followers took time before they could even comprehend who "this man" was....don't spend an entire lifetime tryin' to find answers to incomprehendable questions...God is great and it means exactly that..he's Jesus. he's the holy spirit,he's omnipotent,omnipresent..all those C.R.E..words...and that is where all kinds of sub divisions of christianity spring out..but in the bible..new testament..it semas u cannot go thru the father but by me..meaning Jesus...also says that Jesus is our advocate up there esp. when we are found at fault by God..so instead of trying to find fault with these stuff...thank and bless him..for bringin' u this far..it's the least u can do..t doesn't take alot of mind or soul energy....

[mwananchi_]

Here's what I had to say on the "Brainwashed" thread:
http://www.mashada.com/dcforum/DCForumID15/109.shtml

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The relationship between a person and their God is private, personal, direct, and unconditional. You don't need to belong to any religion, have gone through some "cleansing" ceremonies, have some biblical sounding name etc.

Any middle-men who come in between somebody and his God be they preachers, priests, bishops, popes, saints, Virgin Marys, Angel Gabriels, Jesus Christ etc are just out to manipulate and mislead people for some gain.

The most misleading verse in the entire Bible has got to be: "I am the way, the truth, and the light. No one comes to the Father except through me." This supposedly uttered by the one and only Jesus Christ.

People had been talking to God centuries before this Jewish Christ came along. People continue to talk to their God without the "assistance" of this same Jesus.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Msoto]

Who is Jesus?

Perhaps u are looking in the wrong place. To me I believe Jesus stood for the common man....his teachings how he lead his life is how we should leave ours...By dying as a common man.....he actually showed us that he is no different from US,....The HOLY TRINITY exists....I believe...and thats what i stick to.....

I believe we should look at the greater whole and not the pieces.....and so what do I mean?

I mean.....its not in our position as I see to be able to accurately state that Jesus isn't the Son of God.....or that the Holy Trinity does not exist....some....concepts far exceed the complexes of our mind.....

Instead we should focus on JESUS TEACHING.....we should be humble..,...and not stray from this message and instead focus on the carrier of the message....some where in the new testament....there is a person who neglects a beggar....and Jesus tells the person...that he had neglected him(refering to himself as the beggar,Jesus that is)....

So what does it all mean?....The MESSAGE is our DAILY RELATIONSHIPS......not the messenger...we should not question what we are not in a position to understand,,,,thats why faith exists and thats why we believe......just my OPINION....

[mkora]

look, JESUS is a god BUT not ALMIGHTY GOD- JEHOVAH... what Jesus meant when he said "if u have seen me you have seen the father" is like you dont have to see E.G. a boss can give the vice authority to sign papers representing him etc dont mean the boss and vice are the same person.. so get it straight!!

[playa]

God is God, thats the bottom line!

[masaa_always]

One error we must guard against is that we must not think of God the father as having 'come first,' and God the son a little later, and God the Holy Spirit later still. All three are equally eternal, possessing as they do the one divine nature; God's thought and God's love are equally timeless with God's nature. And God the son and God the Holy Spirit are not in any way subordinate to God the Father; one is not more powerful, nor wiser, nor greater than the other. All three possess the same infinite perfection, an equality rooted in the one divine nature which they equally possess.

However, we do attribute to the individual divine Persons certain works, certain activities that seem most suitable to the particular relationship of this or that divine Person. For eg, it is God the Father that we attribute the work of creation, since we think of him as the "generator," the instrigator, the startor, the starter of things, the seat of the infinite power which God possesses.

Similarly, since God the son is the knowledge or the wisdom of the Father, we ascribe to him the works of wisdom; it was he who came upon earth to make truth known to us, and to heal the breach between God and man.

Finally, since the Holy Spirit is infinite love, we appropriate to him the works of love, particularly the sanctification of souls, since sanctification results from the indwelling of God's love within the soul.