[y5next]

first, you don't have to be patronising in your response. It makes your arguments seem "needy". I won't bother addressing every line of your response. Yes I know you meant 'fan' in the broader sense, and that it is why I even put the quotes around it, in case you missed it. Along that vein, apply the same common sense you advise me of about the football match. it's an analogy. The fact is you made comments that I construe to be in agreement with the tripe from VoR.

This I will address:

>DO I PERPETUATE HATRED WHEN I ASK OF YOU AND YOUR KIND OF BELIEVERS TO CLEAN UP YOUR HOMES BEFORE YOU GO OUT AND CORRECT THOSE WHO CRITICISE THE STENCH THAT COMES OUT OF YOUR WINDOWS?

And I said that just because a few idiots go out and do stupid things does NOT make them the poster boys of the faith. it is not survivor or tempation island. You do not get voted out of the faith. Look around and see how many billions live their lives in an exemplary manner. It's human nature to focus on the negative. What you seem to advocate is that every muslim should stand up and condemn them. Well and good, but not everyone has that persona. They kill each other everyday in Ireland for their denominations, I don't see every Catholic and Protestant around the world taking up arms against their neighbours. I don't see them condemning these actions. So why should I?
I will take your criticism, if it has merit. At this point it is all hot air and I don't have a balloon to fill.

[mwewe]

Kivilo, are you suggesting that muslims do not criticize wrongdoers in their midst? That would be an extraordinary assertion, given that muslims have gone to war with other muslims over interpretations (as have Christians against other Christians). The Young Turks (the original Young Turks from Turkey, that is) overthrew a gava they thought misinterpreted Islam. Shias and Sunnis fight each other out on a regular basis. Saudi Arabia deported than declared persona non grata Osama bin Laden. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia came into existence in the first place because the Wahabbis disagreed with the Mufti of Mecca on Islam. Khomeini's fatwa on Rushdie has been widely criticized by many, including the respected Al Azhar University in Cairo, as have bin Laden's fatwas. Muslim leaders ALL OVER the world condemned bin Laden, but also (and much more gently) criticized the West.

So your statement is patently false.

Oh, and an idle question - why did you take a criticism of Voice of Reason by y5next, as a personal attack on yourself? One plausible theory:

Voice of Reason = Kivilo.

Just a theory, mind.

[kivilo]

POINT TAKEN AND IT WAS "NEEDY"! i did not and still dont take sides with v.o.r. I just feel the general "non-muslim",public doesnt seem to have understood that there many like you (followers of the KORAN).

IF THERES ANYTHING GOOD THAT HAS COME OUT OF THE OSAMA CRAP IT IS THAT THERE ARE MANY TRUE MUSLIMS!

My point then is, it isnt strange to find such misinterprations as the real ones we never seem to read as all is soo shh shh among the muslims and that that comes out loud is the madmens version of the vergins and etc etc.It was just my comment before you lit it up!


this was about the muslim we can take the catholics and the protestants or the christians at another topic if brought up as they have theres too!

nb! Drop the balloon!you wont need it!

[kivilo]

mwewe

wewe...you began nicely with info then you get it all wrong and mess up!I dont have double personalities and im too old to have that problem so count your futheeze alone and stop thinking we all still play marbles!

[y5next]

When I said you, it applies to YOU, personally, and everyone generally, who wants to make an informed opinion. You, Kivilo, may have searched out the truth, the rest may not have. Speak for yourself and let the rest do the same.

You did not condemn the faith? Here is your quote:

>“ The real Muslims leave this to the rest of the world. The question then arises why? Is it that some agree to the reactions of these misinterpretors or?”

Now when you say ‘real Muslims’, I do take it to mean the rest of the believers, or you want to modify my interpretation?
Condemning the faith does not have to be in the form ALL Muslims, the fact that you’ve generalized your opinion makes it so. When some idiot commits a crime, even if they claim it is the name of their faith, it does not mean that others of the faith have the same attitude. That person is an anomaly. Billions around the world, educated, thinking human beings are not going to blindly follow a belittling faith preaching hatred and intolerance and that is what the media has been peddling for years.
What makes the attacks on Islam unpalatable is the insistence on the media’s part to point out the faith of the idiots. Why don’t they do the same with the KKK and other extremist groups? They essentially advocate a form of ethnic/religious cleansing. The faith is not a determinant of the person’s actions. What it has turned out to be is an association of terrorism and extremism with the faith. Regardless of what counter argument is presented to the contrary, there is too much focus on that aspect. The lies are drowning the truth out. Yes, Muslims do bear a responsibility to acknowledge, condemn and distance themselves from such barbaric acts, but we do act under the assumption that other thinking human beings will see it for the BS it is. Unfortunately that has not seemed the case.

>this was about the Muslim we can take the Catholics and the protestants or the Christians at another topic if brought up as they have theres too!

I simply used it as an example of how the faiths and the beliefs are handled differently.

[kivilo]

There now we in the same boat!
Im wit datt!
Thank yu!

[moumin]

There are many critics from within Islam...........kivilo says muslims criticize only others..... that is just propaganda.........

There are so many who do............ in the US there are Howard University professor Sulayman Nyang, Abou El Fadl a prominent law scholar who is wellknown in LA, Abdulaziz Sachedina at the University of Virginia, Ebrahim Moosa, an associate professor of Islamic studies at Duke University............. all of them have been vocally critical……………….

These are just the American scholars. As mwewe says above the major islamic institutions have ALL repeatedly condemned extremism. You do not get to hear of them because the CNNs and BBCs of this world are not interested in them..........??????? The muslim world does not own the international media……….. the only channel Al Jazeera was bombed by Americans for giving an alternative view…………..

Al Azhar, the Imams in Mecca, even Ayatollah Khamenei of Iran have repeatedly condemned bin Laden's fatwas........... if the Western press does not pick this up is it their fault????????????????

All ALL ALL leaders of muslim countries vehemently denounced the September terrorist attacks…………..Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, ALL Gulf States, Turkey, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Libya, ALL of North Africa………. even Afghanistan…………… only Iraq did not……. and you can understand why. ALL major religious leaders condemned the actions………many issued fatwas specifically countering bin Laden’s fatwas………..

Was that the first time they did so????????? Not at all………. they ALL condemned the embassy bombings………… and they repeatedly criticize extremism on a regular basis……… this is not picked up by the media but we hear it in the mosques all the time………….

All this is far far more than the West does when there is any terrorist attack on or oppression of any muslim country, like Palestine or Kashmir or………… I do not hear churches condemning the US for funding $3 billion EVERY YEAR and arming Israeli terrorism except for a few minor grumbles………. I do not hear Hindus condemning Indian oppression in Kashmir……………. I do not hear Russian orthodox churches condemning slaughter of Chechnyans in their own land…………..

[Wa Mahuthu]

Voice of Reason has really distorted the verses that he/she quoted from the Koran. It is okay if you do not like the religion, but trying to make others hate the religion based on some misinterpreted verses is wrong.

I am not a muslim, I have alot of muslim friends and I have read the Koran. I think you should really reconsider misinforming people--especially on something serious.

[SPRINKLER]

Personally am a staunch believer of christianity but I strongly defend the islam religion for i have lived with Muslims in their holy land.That is where you get the clear/true picture of what Islam is all about.Yes, some followers have missinterpreted the Quran & islam in their own ways.Read songs of solomon? and get back to us.

[BIB]

Voice of reason you are mtoto ya haramu with no place in this planet, just continue attacking a religion you know nothing a bout it and remember you have been black listed like Salman Rashidue.

Don't forget you are cheap son of a gun with no protection by British intelligence(f19), don't be surprised some muslims have already tracked your location via internet given the potential of some Muslim computers wizards.

Let me retaliate no religion should be attacked be Islam, Cristanity and Jeudism whatsoever!

Mashada do not tolerate this act and as for today you membership has been terminated; my friend go to hell!!!