[Remedios_the_Beauty]

solo,
sounds like you are in a place that every one of us will be or have been.

all i wanted to say is that if being 'kenyan,' doesnt work for you now thats cool. it is part of your heritage but it does not describe who you really are. thats why i say that tribalists are not patriotic (or is it tribiotic?) they are just people full of hatred. being one tribe or another defines where you come from, it does not have to define where you are going.

nevermind what other people are doing they are just trying to figure it all out, just like you and you can trust me on that. i dont think we were put on this earth to suffer, we create our suffering through hate, fear etc, etc.

i think the point is...we have to work hard and earn it (enlightenment/fulfillment/truth/hapiness).

whatever it takes my friend, whatever it takes...

[jujusister]

remedios,
you’ll find that there’s a lot of info back home starting with the professor at Uni.Nbi. if you’re really interested in kikuyu culture etc, try dr. githae (i hope that’s his name) the famous herbalist. he has established an institute for traditional african medicine (i know it was in laikipia before the clashes) and there’s been all manner of articles on him in the local kenyan press. you can call up the nation and i’m sure they’ll direct you to him. i haven’t met him but i admire his politics.

**now one last thing before we all move on. you mentioned something in your last post that i can’t leave without commenting on.

you say:
“…i'm afraid that all our beautiful history is/will be lost very soon as few accurate descriptions remain of some of our traditions. the book contains first hand information so it is a treasure…”

listen remedios:
the biggest scam ever pulled, and that continues to be hammered into the african’s psyche is this notion that somehow, ‘real africans’ are a vanishing breed. i am sick to death of all the ridiculous books/documentaries out there – most often written by non-africans – that chronicle the disappearance of the ‘true african’, the ‘last tribe’, the ‘last african’. that’s all nonsense.

it’s an absurd and chauvinistic stance to assume, because it presumes they possess the true definition of what an ‘african’ should be. and they do this because they can’t process the idea of a ‘real’ african who doesn’t wear beads, isn’t poor, living in dust and who doesn’t go hunting. or who isn’t suffering from some tropical disease or whatever. and the idea of the growing number of africans such as myself who make use of western culture but are aligned with and work completely with the spirits, is a very frightening one. it’s about balance remedios. as much as i like buying cd’s and visiting the city now and then, god, my ancestors and the spirits come first. and that’s what gives my life meaning. i know where i belong; where home is. i can walk away from all this pop anytime, with no regrets.

we evolve. debt remains. align yourself with god and your ancestors and you’ll be good to go.

[Mark Twist Thuo]

I wish you luck in this pursuit of African Beliefs and practices. I haven't read much on this issue but I intend to read "Facing Mount Kenya" at some point.

That character you mentioned called Mami Wata of West Africa exhibits sounds eerily similar to another that our neighbour back in Limuru used to threaten me and his grandsons with. This guy was of the "kihiu Mwiri" age set(riika) which was also Kenyattas age set. Well he had goats and sheep which during the hols he would ask his two grandsons about my age to take to pasture and sometimes they would take them to the Kinenie forest. It was here that we would be warned not to stray or encounter the feared, "Muka wa Kweru" roughly translated to mean the "White Bride" She was reputed to do much the same things you mentioned ragarding Mami Wata except for the positive stuff like rewarding men with riches. This I just draw from a boyhood story so there may not be much to it but I just thought I would mention it to Remedious who wanted to know about Kikuyus.

You complain that the culture is disappearing and how your grandma recounted stories of African traditional worship. I notice you seem to say this with nostalgia but my question is did you attempt to attend one of Ngonya Wa Gakonya's Tent of the living God's religious prayer ceremonies? These guys have most of the information you need on traditional worship but there appearance rather than their message and educational value was what the press chose to highlight.

Since you sound like you may have genuine interest, why don't you visit the National Museum and look at the colonial pictures of Agikuyu back in the early 20the century and the European tales that accompany them. what is left out rather than what is highlighted should set you on course to discovering your identity.

National Archives. People do not know this is a gold mine. I could sit in there for 24 hrs and not get tired. Looking at pictures of Chief Karuri and other sub chiefs circa 1908. Colonial documents detailing all recognized kikuyu chiefs at that time.

Look at this one:

1908

Record book containing brief character notes, hut tax statistics and brief notes by the District commissioner on the following chiefs and headmen:- Karuri wa gakure, Katuru wa Wamui, Wimba wa Murianene, Lulua wa Mbuthia, Kaningi wa Mukongogo, Jagi wa Njira, Irungu wa Ikungu, Michuki wa Kagwe, Wangu wa Makeri, Warui wa Gikonyo, Thungi wa Githaiga, Gachoka wa Kagembi, Ekundu wa Kamau, Njugu wa Kabiru, Wanjohi wa Ndegwa, Kihunyu wa Kihanya, Muru wa Ndinga, Ruga wa Migwi, Chege wa Ngarangu, Kiruga wa Gacheru, Gakobo wa Mbathia, Kamandi wa Karura, Kamau wa Ngondi,Kaweru wa Muiga, Njagi wa Githambo, Miani wa Kariuki, Gathere wa Kanyi, Kihiga wa Mwenje, Muruithia wa Kihara, Gichuki wa Ngonii, Muthara wa Irungu, Waiganjo wa Rithie, Kaburi wa Kahiu.
Piece Date : 1908 - 1912

Record book containing serial numbers and locations of each sub-division, names of headmen and sub-headmen in charge and their salaries, names of council presidents, names of retainers and district commissioner`s character notes on each headman. Notes on chief Karuri to 13/5/16 when died.
Piece Date : 1912 - 1920

[sambizanga]

let me say first that i am a true christian and didn't come to bash any of you. i believe some of these cultural practices must be left behind because we must follow the ten commandments. but i'm glad that sister juju said homosexuality is wrong.

sisterjuju are you raising your children to believe in the same things you believe in?

and isn't it true that spirits and jinis promise you money and power in exchange for your prayers?

[Mark Twist Thuo]

Sambi,

You and only you believe that YOU should follow the ten commandments.

Do not say unto others what YOU believe THEY should follow.

The problem with Abrahamian Faith(Judaism, Christianity and Islam) is it's intolerance for others.

[supajack]

sambizanga,
and exactly where did she say homosexuality is bad?? i think i missed that part.

[jujusister]

sambizanga,
i guess i must be christian since i don't kill, steal, covet my neighbour's man and goods , etc.
why do you think the ten commandments are some amazing phenomenon that landed with the white man?

the ten commandments are just common sense and if someone had to teach you to love your neighbour, avoid theft, etc... then where have you been all this time?

i said "...there’s a big fat problem with the ‘homosexual’ question..." because sexuality is left up to the spirits to dictate... save that discussion for another day.

and please don't confuse tired digressive myth/urban legend with indigenous african spirituality.

i don't have children but you can bet your last shilling that when i do, they'll be free from christian meddling.

[supajack]

ok, it took me a while... i guess i was trying to digest info... but my question is this, and it's directed to everyone. why do you think relationships fail? why is it that even though we have buddies who are married, going out, ultimately, their relationships always seem to fail? even though they may live together for life.

i know my question's kidogo confused, but please let me know what you think.

[solomatic]

supajack,
kenyan relationships fail because kenyans are full of sh*t. we enter relationships with people because:

1. we can't handle being alone
2. for sex
3. because we want to go out with the best looking person.
4. or the richest person.
5. we are fake and can't be our true selves in the relationship so we pretend to be clever and 'cute' and 'deep'.
6. have more secrets from our partners than we share intimacies
7. are trying too much to be western so angusha all sorts of melrose place drama into our relationships.
8. have never realised that you don't get involved with someone to become 'whole'. you're supposed to be whole and happy and then meet someone who's whole and happy and then create something beautiful together.
9. don't know how to support and nurture one another.
10. are embarassed by stupid things like bad feet, stetchmarks, looks, - and yet, no one chose to look the way they do.
11. are busy plotting how to catch our partners dogging so we can confirm our insecurities and suspicions.
12. can't believe that anything beautiful and wonderful can happen to us. if we find ourselves in a relationship where things are working out well, we get suspicious and then do juu chini to create/find something 'bad' and 'wrong' with the other person so that we can rest assured that we were right all along and this person was really 'bad' and 'just pretending'

ad finitum.


by the way supajack, where are you located?

jujusis:
the more i read your posts, the more i feel you are one wierd woman. i feel like i'm being sucked deeper and deeper into a cave somewhere in a dense thick central african forest. what's the deal?

[supajack]

solo i'm in chicago. by the way, your analysis is as usual, on point. you forgot about prayer. how many couples actually get down on their knees and pray together? you know, i've always judged my potential girlfriends by their willingness to kneel down with me and pray. and not ma our fathers and what have you.

i can tell you most of them look at me with COMPLETE surprise and TOTAL disbelief when i tell them "let's get down on our knees and pray before swatching". and that's where i ex them.

you know why? i guess it's coz it's "embarassing". how stupid is that?

let me tell you solo, number one way to figure out who you're dealing with: take her out, do the usual stuff and then, introduce the prayer scenario.