[Remedios_the_Beauty]

let me try this again!

supajack-ten thousand apologies for confusing you with stupak, i was most definately addressing you, it's just the name that got in the way.

alright the gender issue is clear. i have no problem understanding that spirits have no particular gender up until they possess you temporarily. i obviously misunderstood what sex referred to in this case. sex (the act) and love are inclusive of each other, thats the only way they exist to me. i believe we are on the same page on that?

gathoni-nice insight

supajack-we seem to be plagued by the exact same things, human relationships and spiritual discernment.

jujusis-i know for a fact that africans have had their own religions before the foreign missionaries came...i am curious though because your referrences seem west-african as opposed to east. it may not matter in the long run but in that respect i think that i owe it to myself to research my kikuyu religious beliefs to really be historically true to myself.

[jujusister]

remedios:

you don't have to worry about cleaning the slate if the other party isn't interested. you're doing what you need to survive and move on. don't worry about the other person forgiving you. just do your bit with a clean heart and move on. you have to move quick with these things. spirituality is a race. no mulling over things for years waiting for them to resolve themselves. you have to fly as fast as you can. try to grow quickly.

supajack:
you just start praying clearly, concisely in a loud voice, editing out all the extra language. just say: "my ancestors i need to move on. i don't know how, so i'm asking you to help me". then you leave the rest to them. but you have to keep on asking, every day for your whole life. they never let you down. but the waiting sucks like heck.

to make the wait interesting, start cleaning up your other moral debts. with ex-pals, family, whomever. it never seems to end but i guess the process makes you feel better and at least if you die in the middle of it, you leave knowing that a lot of crap wasn't left hanging. you're better off at the end of the day knowing you cleaned up 13% of the mess as opposed to none, just because you felt afraid or tired of getting lost in wierd spirituality.

solomatic:
operative phrase in excerpt above: "in some popular stories". i just threw the story in there for colour. the spirit mentioned is one of the strongest and most powerful. the ultimate doorway to god.

gathoni:
it's not scary. it's just that we were all conditioned to think that everything instinctively african is wrong/bad/devilish. i know there's evil out there, but i don't go looking for it. i'm firmly in positivity. and i'm in a race against time to get to where i want to be, which is to become an ancestor and never have to come back to this world. so, the last thing on my mind is getting into any mischief. i'm just trying to clean up all my junk and get out quick.

-----
everyone, sorry about my messy previous post. my mind was elsewhere.

people, please wake up. stop being afraid. if only you knew the greatness inside you.

[jujusister]

surprise, surprise, my name's divai wambui mativo. girlfriend i could be from your village.

the only reason it sounds 'west african' is because the old gods are so far away from our daily activities, from our psyche(in east africa). it's like they're buried somewhere deep in the closet and all we have to do is dig them out. but they're all right there back home. we just don't know how to access them.

actually, the above-mentioned spirit "mami wata" is very much alive in our neck of the woods. in zambia she's "solomoni". she's found in bushman cave paintings in the kalahari. all over central africa.... etc.

[Remedios_the_Beauty]

alright sisjuju, we could be from the same village..that would actually not surprise me.

mami wata has significant mention in many parts of africa (west, some cental and some south like you mentioned) but i have never heard of east. that does not mean she does not exist, but if you know or have heard of any in kenya, do share.

alright i know i am clear on vodoun being a predominantly west african practice. not that others cannot subscribe but from what i have read it is inextricably woven with their culture just as kikuyu traditional beliefs are with ours. i have decided to stay local.

like i said if one does not work for me today, i will change it tomorrow.

i must also apologize for this rambling incomplete thought..i hope it is clear what i am trying to say and jujusis if there is one person guilty of wasting time that person is me. i am working on that desparately.

[jujusister]

remedios,
of course gods are everywhere. they and their avatars aren't localized only in west or south/central africa. i live in the west for half a year and the other half in africa. the gods are very much here with me in the west where i happen to be right now and they will be with me in a few weeks when i take off for africa. i don't leave them behind/they don't leave me when i re-locate.

there are tremendous spirits in east africa. tremendous. it's too bad that the majority of the human population is caught up in other nonsense which blinds us to what should really be going down. what i like about west africa is the fact that even though (just as in east africa) there are lots of people up to no good over there, on the flip side, there are lots and lots of people who have brought the gods home. who are in tune with their ancestors and spirit guides; who have direct access to supernatural aid. there's a freedom there that i need to function, on the level that i have to function that i find there, and sadly, i don't find it back home.

east africa is still full of suspicion, fear, mistrust, and religious fanaticism. and as much as i do miss home at times, i can't think only of myself. i have to think of my family that would be ostracised and ridiculed. or maybe even worse. and as much as i belong to a 'kenyan' family, this is a personal journey. i'm just trying to get by the way i truly know how and i have to do it the way my ancestors want me to. but i'm lucky because my family supports me fully.

the good news is that there are some really good people back home in kenya. i know of a man who lives by dagoretti, who has total access to his ancestors and is really helping people. and no, he doesn't ask for cash. he just helps his 'patients' with the sacrifices they need to perform, and if they in turn feel like giving him some food, whatever - so that he too may sustain his family because his is a full-time job - they do.

there was another really great man living near the coast, somewhere around ramisi (shimba hills area) whom when i first met him, blew my mind. sadly, he died two years ago but the good news is his grandson 'inherited' the gods and is moving on with the work.

i hear you on "staying local", finding out about your kikuyu culture etc. hey, we all have different paths. like i've always said, my case has been different from day one. i'm operating on a different level.

and like i said before, i'm not trying to gain recruits. i'm just saying there's an alternative which just happens to be the best for me.

check out:
1. 'facing mount kenya' - jomo kenyatta (if you haven't already)

2. 'african religions and philosophy' - john mbiti

3. 'introduction to african religion' - john mbiti

and next time you're in nairobi, make an appointment and go speak with the professor of religion at Uni. Nairobi. i can't remember his name off head, but if i do, i'll let you know.

good luck.


p.s. some people i can help, some people i can't. when i can't, i try and refer them to those who can.

[supajack]

intersting, interesting. let me think up a question and i'll come back and write.

[solomatic]

i've just finished reading a couple of other threads and am extremely depressed. tribalism, hate, rubbish.

is there really any hope for africans?

what about tribalism? shouldn't we be proud of our tribal backgrouds?

remedios says she wants to find out about her kikuyu roots. are tribal roots any different from each other? are some tribes 'special'.

manzee if you read some of the nonsense going on on other threads...

by the way supajack, i like your comments to that idiot who was preaching hate against kikuyus.

[Remedios_the_Beauty]

alright, jujusis...i need to formulate a post just for you because you have said so much that i want to address.

solomatic-the way i see it less than a century ago my people had their own religion. i mean my late grandmother used to tell us about life before the mzungu and a little oral history if we were lucky. After colonization those religious beliefs were abandoned and we adopted christianity, even if we didnt change much of our other culture. i understand that my great grandfather may have been a 'medicine man.' i just want to understand my heritage, which is part of my spiritual journey. i am one person who is very against tribalism and even though i ask jujusis about certain referrences to west african practices i understand that they are just the method, not the core issue. tribalism to me is just a tool used for political gain or oppression. please do not let these mashada people stua you.

there is no tribe which is more special than the other and wouldnt it be funny if we found out that god or ngai, allah, buddah etc, etc were the same thing?

i mean think about it-if no tribe or nation is special then there must be an equalizer somewhere...what do you think?

[solomatic]

remedios,
i like to think the ultimate god is one and the same. but i also get pissed off with him/her/it a lot these days. especially with all the nonsense that's going on in the world. why in the world did he/she/it put us here if our only mission is to suffer and die? if there's no chance at spiritual success, then why does he continue to tesa us by letting us live? si he just destroys us all once and for all?

i get so frustrated when i hear jujusister talk about what spirituality means to her, knowing that i may never get to where she is in this lifetime.

i've also been thinking about what supajack said on that other post about africans being born into tribes precisely so that they could overcome those definitions... i'm still processing that one.

about five years ago when i was in my mid 20's, i just got tired of all the drinking, sleeping around and stupidness that a young kenyan man's life is all about. so i just stopped. i said f--- it. i moved to another city, started a whole new life and decided to just chill. and the sad thing is, i decided i didn't want to be around kenyans anymore. i'm just tired of being 'kenyan' and of the ridiculous issues we're always fighting about and discussing.

who's best for president? why is so and so not a good leader? which chicks from which tribe are better in bed? where's the next heng? and all that stupidity. honestly death for me would be going back home right now and being around your average educated up and coming kenyan. those ones who consider themselves 'the next generation' and have all these plans, deals, agendas, etc.

anyway, so i just decided to chill and i guess i thought that since i've given all that up, i might as well spend my time trying to figure out who solomatic really is and whether there's even any real reason why i'm around on this planet. do i matter? does any of this ##### matter?

i guess i feel better knowing that i haven't drunk in five years. that i'm physically fit. that i spend time doing other things. that i don't have a babe just to have a babe. you know what i'm saying?

anyway, i guess i'm just trying to say that i'm trying to grow.

solo

[Remedios_the_Beauty]

jujusis,
the suggestion to go see the professor at the university is a very good one. actually i will really enjoy that...
i have read 'facing.. and it is part of my 'library.' i find it just fascinating. i'm afraid that all our beautiful history is/will be lost very soon as few accurate descriptions remain of some of our traditions. the book contains first hand information so it is a treasure.

i also want to say that there is a clear difference between god(the ultimate) and spirits in your postings. there is so much there that i have yet to understand regarding spirits. my questions now deal mainly with god(the ultimate?) so at this time i have to limit my post since i really cannot converse adequately with my little knowledge. when i started to reply to you, i realised that my questions and ideas are still so many and muddled that i need to wait, do some thinking and work on my own before i can even address this issue again. thank you for your insight, i actually have what i need to move on.

you are right that we all have our different paths and there is no right or wrong way as far as im concerned, only the way that works for the individual. every person has a slot in their being meant for spiritual fulfillment-that is part of our design. we just have to do some ground work, respect others and live with integrity and balance. thats as conclusive as i can get at this point.