"Tradition"

[al-zalzalah]

This is sick. How on earth does a cultural practice such as this come into existence? Is there seriously a traditional code of ethics/ religion that puts a rubber stamp on this??!!

Breaking News, Kenya, Africa, Politics, Business, Sports, Blogs, Photos, Videos- 4-year-old bride for price of beaded necklace

In the beading ritual, Samburu morans identify little girls as brides by making them wear a beaded necklace. Child rights activists in Samburu say that beading can happen any time a moran meets a girl, irrespective of her age. “If he meets the girl out in the field tending animals, and decides, ‘this one will be my bride’, all a moran has to do is put the necklace on her,” says Ms Josephine Kulea, a child rights activist in Isiolo.

The morans do not even have to consult the girl’s parents, Ms Kulea says. Once the girl wears the first bead, she is as good as married to the moran. Her parents, on noticing the necklace, immediately start making preparations to have her circumcised, in readiness for marriage.

During beading, morans are free to have sex with the innocent girls, many of whom are too young to recognise their supposed husbands, let alone attend to affairs of their matrimonial duties. And once the moran graduates to an age-group that allows him to marry, he simply pays 10 cattle to the girl’s father, before whisking the girl away to the marriage bed, no matter her age.

The article is called "4-year-old bride for price of beaded necklace".

[Devine]

So sad for kids so young to be wrestling with such mature issues. She should be playing with her toys and making fake mudcakes instead of wondering who is going to hurt her. 4 yrs old is waaay too young

[jogoo wa shamba]

I have read the article and while I believe that many traditional african customs have no place in the modern world, I also think we should not condemn before understanding.

First, we are told that the custom requires a moran to place a necklace onto a girls neck, an act that can occur anywhere, even while she is tending cattle.
Second, we are told that this was done for "little Itoms", so we presume it was done by the moran in question.
However, we are then told that she has no idea what the man who booked her looks like...how then did he put the necklace on her?

Maybe we need another Samburu view on this: is this how it happens? Having sex with 10 year olds and impregnating them is clearly not acceptable.

We have a lot of western and other "well-meaning" activists working to tell us wht is right. While much makes sense, we need to be careful about uncritical acceptance. Culture acts as the glue that holds a nation together. Disrupt that and you have vices like alcoholism, drug abuse and crime.

We need to be "modern", but not by blind condemnation.

[jogoo wa shamba]

Recently, I was told of a distant cousin, a girl in high school who has astounded everyone by deciding to get circumcised. Note that our community has stopped circumcising girls for some time and even her mom is not circumcised. No one knows why she decided to do it.

Now, in some European towns, you will see people walking around with pierced noses, eyebrows, lips, tongues, etc...the so called body-modification.

Now, should my cousin's plan to get circumcised, some would call it FGM, be regarded as a form of body-modification since she wants it done to her, or should it be condemned as bad FGM?

NB: she is above 16 years, no one has forced her, and while I do not know where she wants it done: hospital or wherever, I assume there will be hygienic conditions.

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by Devine

So sad for kids so young to be wrestling with such mature issues. She should be playing with her toys and making fake mudcakes instead of wondering who is going to hurt her. 4 yrs old is waaay too young

Amen, sister.

I have read the article and while I believe that many traditional african customs have no place in the modern world, I also think we should not condemn before understanding.

Enlighten me, jogoo, What exactly is there to understand in the 'logic' of a 4 or wtva yr old 'agreeing' to be married to some randy 27 year old moran with peaking hormones? Last year, we harshly condemned the Yemeni fellow who was marrying a sijui 9 yr old. This year, when the moran does it, we would like to be consistent.

First, we are told that the custom requires a moran to place a necklace onto a girls neck, an act that can occur anywhere, even while she is tending cattle.
Second, we are told that this was done for "little Itoms", so we presume it was done by the moran in question.
However, we are then told that she has no idea what the man who booked her looks like...how then did he put the necklace on her?

She obviously didn't know she was being selected for marriage. You jua a 4-yr old is just a katoi. What does the baby know about courtship? Furthermore, she's been separated from her family. She's disoriented, traumatised.... I'm not surprised that she hardly remembers.

Maybe we need another Samburu view on this: is this how it happens? Having sex with 10 year olds and impregnating them is clearly not acceptable.

For me, the most telling part in the article is the part that describes the Assistant Chief, Henry Lesokoyo, calling the child rights activist to come rescue the little one. When you have a Samburu man calling an outsider to do some rescuing, you gotta figure that there's something legit to it.
Is this deal with the 4 yr old traditional Samburu practice? I don't know. That's why I put the word "Tradition" in inverted commas in the heading. What I do know is that, traditional practice or modern aberration, it is happening and it is sick. It is on that basis that I am condemning it. As for child marriages; those definitely happen among the Samburu and Maasai.

We have a lot of western and other "well-meaning" activists working to tell us wht is right. While much makes sense, we need to be careful about uncritical acceptance. Culture acts as the glue that holds a nation together. Disrupt that and you have vices like alcoholism, drug abuse and crime. We need to be "modern", but not by blind condemnation.

My brother, until the day I die I will condemn anybody who does bad things to little kids, whether his/ her actions are legitimized by tradition, modernity, sharia or wtva. This particular cultural practice (if indeed it is a traditional practice) cannot possibly be holding the community together. Ni vile tumesema before, it is not logical for a physically mature man to subject a girl to sex before she has even began her menses. Yaani even from an evolutionary perspective (survival of the species), it just doesn't make sense. And even if the girl has just begun menstruating, she is not yet ready to give birth. Does the article not describe one of those young brides dying in labor? Seems to me that this particular practice kills the community; it doesn't enable it to thrive.

Me I think change is a constant in any society. So since society is going to change anyway, people should adopt practices which are ethical and which make it possible for the community as a whole to thrive.

Originally Posted by jogoo wa shamba

Now, should my cousin's plan to get circumcised, some would call it FGM, be regarded as a form of body-modification since she wants it done to her, or should it be condemned as bad FGM?

NB: she is above 16 years, no one has forced her, and while I do not know where she wants it done: hospital or wherever, I assume there will be hygienic conditions.

In my books, a 16 yr old is still a kid, and as long as FGM is illegal in Kenya, then wtva you call it, she is breaking the law. Your cousin's plan sounds like a cry for help. I find it strange that nobody knows why she's decided to do it. You guys need to sit her down with somebody she trusts for a heart-to-heart talk on why this is so important to her. You may find she's been misinformed by her peers ama she's having some serious psychological crisis.... For her sake, let's not get into too many details. Please just get her to see a good counsellor.

[CATHREEN]

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

This is sick. How on earth does a cultural practice such as this come into existence? Is there seriously a traditional code of ethics/ religion that puts a rubber stamp on this??!!

Breaking News, Kenya, Africa, Politics, Business, Sports, Blogs, Photos, Videos- 4-year-old bride for price of beaded necklace



The article is called "4-year-old bride for price of beaded necklace".

This is more than sick! It's out rightly disgusting to the bone!

Who is to blame on such traditions?

Certainly the four year old has no stand on the issue and that would only leave a huge percentage of fault to the parents and the donkey balls of men called Morans!

And wat do the human rights department have to say on this?

[Devine]

Originally Posted by jogoo wa shamba

Culture acts as the glue that holds a nation together. Disrupt that and you have vices like alcoholism, drug abuse and crime.

We need to be "modern", but not by blind condemnation.

What we are disrupting here is a vice, exploitation of defenceless children who don't even understand what is being done to them but on some level they know it's wrong. How is child abuse holding the community together? Whatever amount of wrongs never make a right, no matter how many eons we have been practicing those wrongs.

Originally Posted by jogoo wa shamba

Now, should my cousin's plan to get circumcised, some would call it FGM, be regarded as a form of body-modification since she wants it done to her, or should it be condemned as bad FGM?

Oh so their is good FGM and bad FGM . Sikujua lol.
To me, it could be one of two things;

A very independent young woman who has made her own choice albeit a very silly and ignorant one, but a choice regardless and she just wants to assert her independence. The only way she can do that is by mutilating her own body, the only thing she has full control over.

Or it could be a silly teenage gal crying out for attention. So instead of run of the mill promiscuity and binging on alcohol and the usual drugs, it's all been done so she's trying to do something unique to shake things up.

Or maybe she's just bored, you know how life gets sometimes

[jogoo wa shamba]

Cool down and think about it. I did not say I support sex with underage girls, or marrying off children, or forced circumcision of anyone either. I merely said that there is a lot of propaganda trying to make every African practice look barbaric, and by extension, imply that Africans are barbarians who need help. That is why we need collaboration of the story, and investigation.

In some other parts of the world, e.g. India, 2 families can agree that their kids will marry in future. Is this condemned? As long as nobody goes around sleeping with immature girls, it is accepted as the culture.

On the issue of FGM, surely girls who are informed like you know of "labioplasty". They even show it on "E" channel. Some women who feel that there is something wrong with their labia and want plastic surgeons to help. Is this good FGM? Or bad FGM? In the heart of hollywood? Then it should also be comdemned, instead of being shown on Tv! I think my cousin wants to do a similar modification on her body, and she should be allowed.

[Realistik Dreamer]

Originally Posted by jogoo wa shamba

Cool down and think about it. I did not say I support sex with underage girls, or marrying off children, or forced circumcision of anyone either. I merely said that there is a lot of propaganda trying to make every African practice look barbaric, and by extension, imply that Africans are barbarians who need help. That is why we need collaboration of the story, and investigation.

In some other parts of the world, e.g. India, 2 families can agree that their kids will marry in future. Is this condemned? As long as nobody goes around sleeping with immature girls, it is accepted as the culture.

On the issue of FGM, surely girls who are informed like you know of "labioplasty". They even show it on "E" channel. Some women who feel that there is something wrong with their labia and want plastic surgeons to help. Is this good FGM? Or bad FGM? In the heart of hollywood? Then it should also be comdemned, instead of being shown on Tv! I think my cousin wants to do a similar modification on her body, and she should be allowed.

Jogoo wa Shamba, your posture as an Afrikan in these matters is very encouraging.

We dont need lectures from our enemies on what to do and what not to do as they have never shown us their supposed moral superiority.

A quick parallel for those who think I am a congenital racist (as if a Black Person can be one)is this:

We know the thieves and even murderors who lead our country by name and appearence. Most normal people would not take lectures from these lot on morals (thou should not steal for eg)too seriously.

These are lousy Afrikans.

Having said this: It is absolutely crazy for a girl child to be pinpointed like this.

But anybody knows that there are organized paedophile rings in the west and this tool (internet) is a real convenience for these deranged devils......I leave it to the floor to discuss if this is a (sub)cultural thing in the west and even east (for eg I know that Cambodia is relished as a place for such things to exploit poor innocent children. It is nauseating indeed.


Back to Black Afrika:
Also:

-It is madness to mutilate a girl's genitals in order to "control her".

It is lunacy to believe in witchcraft (remote-control/kill my enemy chants/buy a lizard-leg love-portion variety)

The above are NOT CLASSICAL AFRIKAN practices but results of OUR DEGENERATION into superstition & male dorminance tactics/mysoginy.

Now here is my point:


Christianism (white jesus) & Muhammedanism (arab allah)have messed us up just as bad us our own internal silliness.

It is not always a black & white simplicity........

[Realistik Dreamer]

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

This is sick. How on earth does a cultural practice such as this come into existence? Is there seriously a traditional code of ethics/ religion that puts a rubber stamp on this??!!

Breaking News, Kenya, Africa, Politics, Business, Sports, Blogs, Photos, Videos- 4-year-old bride for price of beaded necklace



The article is called "4-year-old bride for price of beaded necklace".

This is not a criticism of al-zalzalah or anybody on this thread but I often wonder why many posts on Afrikan tradition or religion start off with so much squimish reactions/eelings:

Its "primitive", backward etc.

Yet the only reason why humanity has not blown up the planet yet is due to a semblance of Afrikan tradition still latent in our hearts.

Remember it is Afrika that thought out and designed the 10 commandments. Only in a deeper manner.

Its time to quit being defensive & nervous about AFRICAN TRADITION because it will save us.

Check.