Former Mungiki Leader gets Saved

[rayfisher]

You all know that Maina Njenga former mungiki leader charged with illegal possession of fire arms was recently freed and immediately he claimed that he was born again.

There are two possibilities:

1. if he honestly and earnestly confessed and changed then am sure he is forgiven and truely re-newed.

2. If he was dishonest and just playing a political charade to hoodwink the public in the name of christianity then he is surely headed for doom.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by rayfisher

1. if he honestly and earnestly confessed and changed then am sure he is forgiven and truely re-newed.

This is my questions to Christians: Are you okay with this? We all know what Mungiki has done to Kenya, the hundreds of lives lost, thousands maimed and thousands of friends and families left shattered by the loss of their loved ones. How do you reconcile his actions and his slate now being wiped clean? Or the fact that I will go to hell because I don't believe while this murderer will now be in heaven simply because he said "sorry". Does he have to aplologise to the victims or just to god? Surely this cannot be fair.

[ATLian]

Some more questions about his new saved life. Assume he was to backslide and go back to killing people. Let's say he kills "only" 10 people this time. He had already has killed (indirectly) hundreds, but those deaths were wiped off his record when he got saved. Does his record now say just 10 murders, or do the other hundreds of murders come back to his record. In other words, if you're forgiven of all your sins through getting saved, do those old sins come back to your record if you backslide? Or are they erased forever?

No wonder the Christian version of salvation is so popular. If I knew that all I had to do was to confess and get saved, and I'd be forgiven of any sins no matter how vile (apart from blasphemy of the Holy Spirit), then what would stop me from always sinning an dgetting saved?

[al-zalzalah]

remind me, ATLian, did you ever criticize the traditionalist Mungiki on this forum before they spoke of getting saved?

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

remind me, ATLian, did you ever criticize the traditionalist Mungiki on this forum before they spoke of getting saved?

I'm against any group that kills, whether or not I mention them by name or not. Still, I don't understand where your question is coming from, or the point you're trying to make. Please expound ...

[fiery_preacher]

Originally Posted by ATLian

if you're forgiven of all your sins through getting saved, do those old sins come back to your record if you backslide?

Yes they come back but not because God reverses the forgivness but because the backslider goes back to his/her old way of life or even worse.You can compare it with a rehabilitating drug user who fails to continue with treatment such usually end up in worse condition than when they began treatment.

"The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways..." (Proverbs 14:14).

Originally Posted by ATLian

Or are they erased forever?

Yes the sins are erased forever,but ofcourse if you continue backsliding then you end up trapped in your sins and the seriousness of your repentance will dwindle.

God said, "Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings..." (Jeremiah 3:22).

So how do you return to God? "Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19). Therefore repent, get back into the word, and let God blot out your sins. It's that simple. Just pray and ask God to forgive you and clean you up.

Originally Posted by ATLian

No wonder the Christian version of salvation is so popular. If I knew that all I had to do was to confess and get saved, and I'd be forgiven of any sins no matter how vile (apart from blasphemy of the Holy Spirit), then what would stop me from always sinning an dgetting saved?

God cannot be mocked ,he discerns what is in your heart.Even when you are repenting if its just empty words and no sincerity in it you come short of the grace.Forgiveness comes with conditions.

[fiery_preacher]

Originally Posted by ATLian

We all know what Mungiki has done to Kenya, the hundreds of lives lost, thousands maimed and thousands of friends and families left shattered by the loss of their loved ones.

Me personally i think its all a govt ploy to release the man for political reasons.salvation may just be a cover up unfortunately.My reason is this,how many prisoners on deathrow or with illegal possesion of arms are known to have refused to recieve salvation?How come is is the only one out of the thousands released by the govt on grounds that he is a changed man?

My second suspicion is that his other accomplice Ndunge Waruinge was apparently also released on same grounds but we quickly saw how he was used by the same govt in the elections,he even threatened that he would backslide and teach Raila a lesson.

All in all am just human and therefore i can only speculate,but am comforted in that i know with certainity that God scans the heart deeply and it is him who rests with authority to forgive.

Originally Posted by ATLian

How do you reconcile his actions and his slate now being wiped clean? Or the fact that I will go to hell because I don't believe while this murderer will now be in heaven simply because he said "sorry". Does he have to aplologise to the victims or just to god? Surely this cannot be fair.

God's will is to save life not to lose them but because of the free will factor we have to play our part too.Otherwise we are al reduced to some zombies or robots.Although God is always ready and willing to forgive us, He requires two things of us as conditions of forgiveness: repentance and forgiveness of others.If you just say "sorry" but habour grudges in your heart which are ofcourse not concealed from God you don't qualify for forgiveness.Scheming to sin so that you can be forgiven is also out of the question.Thats why paul asked,"shall we sin so that grace may abound?""What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness."

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by ATLian

I'm against any group that kills, whether or not I mention them by name or not. Still, I don't understand where your question is coming from, or the point you're trying to make. Please expound ...

Ni vile tu you're always on the alert for something negative about Christianity, even if it is something indirectly related to Christianity. Like now, Mungiki are notorious for their pre-tendereza violent exploits and rituals. But rather than talking about those exploits and what they say about African values (for instance), we're focusing on "kutendereza" kwao. Mungiki has conveniently become a "Christian" problem.

It would be really cool to see more of those (thus far non-existent) hard-hitting posts that challenge other religions. e.g. When those panga-wielding African men are inspired by their African gods to slash up folks of other African tribes. Or maybe the fact that some 9 years ago, Mungiki fellas were "converting to Islam": http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/36/242.html Know what I mean?

Consider this: By your perspective, the Bible is a book of fairytales that never did happen, and this Mungiki stuff is stuff that is actually happening in our own country. Why don't we discuss the dangers of a traditional African religion that allows people to pretend they've converted to Christianity ama Islam in order to continue their recruitment agenda underground?

[teejay]

Originally Posted by ATLian

This is my questions to Christians: Are you okay with this? We all know what Mungiki has done to Kenya, the hundreds of lives lost, thousands maimed and thousands of friends and families left shattered by the loss of their loved ones. How do you reconcile his actions and his slate now being wiped clean? Or the fact that I will go to hell because I don't believe while this murderer will now be in heaven simply because he said "sorry". Does he have to aplologise to the victims or just to god? Surely this cannot be fair.

Following Christ requires that one, in utmost sincerity, disown his sinful life and change for the better.

Maina Njenga's acceptance of Christ is far from that. To me it reeks of the politics of Central Kenya. It is the same thing that happened with Ndura Waruinge. The duo are nominal converts. It is some pact made between Political leaders and the Judiciary. The latter is financially compromised to dispense skewed justice. Lastly the Religious leaders are brought in once handsome monetary arrangements have been made, to use Christianity to clean up the mess. The result is that on the surface Njenga looks saved, but beneath the calm water, all christly principles have been trashed.

It is true that God indeed forgives people who sin, but that forgiveness does not avert the earthly consequences of your sins. That is why man must still lie in state. That is also the same reason I feel that Maina Njenga should have not been released from prison, prematurely. In my view, he got a lenient sentence considering that he was a leader of a murderous sect.

In reality he as the King must be made accountable for all the killings, just like Omar El-Bashir. That should have been elaborate years behind bars for him.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

Ni vile tu you're always on the alert for something negative about Christianity, even if it is something indirectly related to Christianity. Like now, Mungiki are notorious for their pre-tendereza violent exploits and rituals. But rather than talking about those exploits and what they say about African values (for instance), we're focusing on "kutendereza" kwao. Mungiki has conveniently become a "Christian" problem.

Al-Z, I still don't get your issue. This is a religious forum, while Mungiki is more of a tribal and political group, so they rarely get discussed here. Secondly, I was addressing the fact that their leader got saved (and not the Mungiki issue at large), and wondering how a leader of a group that has killed so many would be accepted by the Christian community. For me to discuss their political moves and such in this forum would be the same as me discussing the savedness of their leader on a political forum.

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

It would be really cool to see more of those (thus far non-existent) hard-hitting posts that challenge other religions. e.g. When those panga-wielding African men are inspired by their African gods to slash up folks of other African tribes.

I've written before that there are 33,000 gods that are currently worshipped in the world, and with them come thousands of religions. But on Mashada, the primary focus is Christianity and Jehovah, and to a much lesser extent, Islam and Allah. That's why our focus is on them. If we were all Dinkas, then we would have discussions on why Apedmuk (their god of war) would allow them to go hack to death innocent villagers if he was an all-good god.

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

Consider this: By your perspective, the Bible is a book of fairytales that never did happen, and this Mungiki stuff is stuff that is actually happening in our own country.

Is Mungiki a religion or a political movement? As far as I know, they don't have their own unique god, they believe in the traditional Kikuyu god. So all they are is a movement which believes in the empowering of Kikuyus while adhering to traditional Kikuyu values in all areas of life (religion, marriage, circumcision, etc). That's why I don't discuss Mungiki here, but I discuss god.