The Case for Early Marriage.

[Dem Gal]

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

I think some of you will enjoy reading this article about sex, early marriage and faith. I know it's long, lakini it's worth the read.
The Case for Early Marriage

This article is quite interesting and thought provoking. It challenges old age wisdom that waiting till you are done with school, started your career, settled down, kulad maisha is best before settling down.

The author makes some very valid points (especially in the context of evangelical cristians). The emphasis placed on chastity and virginity is too much and yet no one educates this young people about realities of marriage.

I however have to disagree alittle with the author and this is purely because of what I have observed in my immediate social surrounding. Most of the girls who got married immediately after high school had to sacrifice so much and especially academically. Most joined community colleges just to get a skill to support them. In most cases, they had several kids back to back reducing their chances to develope their careers. I think that in countries in the US and Europe where they have opportunities and support form social services there are more chances of sucess even after early marriages.

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by Devine

Sorry for the spoiler but those were 7 amazing pages. I love it.

umesamehewa.
especially since you went and read the gosh-darned 7 pages after all. wasn't so bad, now was it?

Originally Posted by Devine

Young pple are going to have sex, why don't we look at other ways to address this reality than saying don't do it and burying our heads in the sand when we hear moans and groans from the next room and are shocked and dismayed when s'one (the abstaining Governor Palin's daughter) becomes pregnant.

lol. haki wewe.

Originally Posted by Dem Gal

The author makes some very valid points (especially in the context of evangelical cristians). The emphasis placed on chastity and virginity is too much and yet no one educates this young people about realities of marriage.

Originally Posted by Devine

I've always maintained that be careful who you get yoked to, but once yoked, divorce is not an option. I think pple would be more careful getting into relationships knowing that, otherwise the sense that divorce is always an option creates this lax feeling in marriages and don't work as hard to stay together. His solution was brilliant, more older couples should talk to younger ones about their own stresses in marriage so the younger ones don't think it's all peaches n cream.

yeah, i like that solution too. it's very practical. people are so invested in putting sexuality in a bottle and storing it safely away in a refrigerator until they figure it is "safe" to deal with. they don't seem to realize you can't control life like that. the best you can do is try to provide guidance.

Originally Posted by Dem Gal

This article is quite interesting and thought provoking. It challenges old age wisdom that waiting till you are done with school, started your career, settled down, kulad maisha is best before settling down.

Originally Posted by Devine

LOL gotcha.What's your take on the whole thing anyway?

as you can guess, i loved the article. this is one of very few protestant christian writers that i can take seriously at all, because the man is actually addressing reality. it helps that he is a sociologist.

i agree with him that late marriages make chastity a near impossibility (and turn christians into either hypocrites or psychological wrecks). if people want to place virginity up there as a virtue, then the only practical option open to most of them is early marriage. take a look at all communities where virginity is actually a realistic expectation at marriage, and you will notice that they all pressure their young ones to get married by 23 hivi. i have in mind many muslims, orthodox jews, conservative hindus and the most fundamentalist of christians. they seem to realize that it is inherently disastrous to force people to fight with the "demons" of lust at an age where their bodies are at peak age for reproduction.

Originally Posted by Dem Gal

I however have to disagree alittle with the author and this is purely because of what I have observed in my immediate social surrounding. Most of the girls who got married immediately after high school had to sacrifice so much and especially academically. Most joined community colleges just to get a skill to support them. In most cases, they had several kids back to back reducing their chances to develope their careers. I think that in countries in the US and Europe where they have opportunities and support form social services there are more chances of sucess even after early marriages.

yep. the problem with early marriage is that it is not sustainable in the real world that most of us live in for financial reasons and for the simple fact that people are still infantile upstairs. seems to me that the most conducive social structure for early marriage would be the close-knit extended family set-up. that way, if there's a shortfall in finances, older folks can step in and saidia. and if those infantile arguments break out, instead of people going into their corners to nuna, the relatives would force a reconciliation.

one thing i think that the author should have taken into account is sthg that devine touches on. there's a reason why our grandmothers and mothers push(ed) their daughters to marry later. they themselves experienced the early marriage and it wasn't all rosy. so why isn't he addressing the fact that there are real reasons why women in those days came to see their early marriages as a kind of prison sentence?

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by teejay

I don't think that delaying Marriage necessarily helps in resolving or Marital flaws.We have had those people who dated for 10 years marry only to divorce in 10 days.

lol. that's so true. and i've met somebody who married a near stranger many years ago and they're still going strong. funny how these things work out.

Originally Posted by teejay

With the coming of new-found feminine independence(I usually ask from what), Men somehow feel threatened. It is highly unlikely that a man would marry and stay happily with a woman who earns double or even triple his salary. Women on the other hand are born to brag about their achievements. They would be quick to remind the man of the under-garments they bought for them in the middle of a fight that had absolutely nothing to with clad.

lol. just sema that is what you've observed. even us we've observed men who will not hesitate to remind the woman how they okotad her from the village and introduced her to "lady gay" and indoor plumbing. or, my favorite, the man who always reminds you that he paid for you in cows....

personally, i think the whole "independence" thing has gone overboard. but it is not a one-sided woman thing. together, we've created a society of misanthropes where men hate women and women hate men. and in order to fix that, one of the things we have to do is to be honest. marriage was not that great in the past. mara mengi women were treated like chattel. that is exactly why, when the economy dictated that women enter the official labor-force and gain the ability to support themselves financially, some of them saw that not marrying was a desirable way of life. if marriage had been an institution where everybody respected and was respected in return, that would not have been so.

men and women both need to question the types of roles that they have traditionally played, because enyewe, some of those roles were plain stupid. then we should come up with sustainable ways to relate to each other and to work together. lazima tuheshimiane, na lazima tuache hii culture ya ubinafsi. there's nobody in this world who can live on his/ her own.

Originally Posted by teejay

Let us not forget that a man's money is always more sweeter a woman. Never mind that the sweet lady of the house is also earning. I hear the wisest of women concocted a new adage which says that what is yours (man's) is ours and what is mine (woman's) is mine. That adage clearly trashes the oneness of a couple that is married and introduces selfishness in the union.

i think materialism is one of our biggest problems. it changes people and it changes relationships. people measure their worth in terms of salary, and they think of the resources they bring into the relationship as "my money", "my house", "my car". and then people despise their financially dependent spouses (male and female both). that's a tricky one to deal with.

[Realistik Dreamer]

I think the issue here is family values. Do we still respect/need them?

Family (i.e Father, Mother, Children & extended family are the basis of civilization)

Africans are buying into the career first/money first (rich b4 kids come?) fantasy promoted by media.

This selfish avoidance of (family) responsibility leads to cheap (no meaningful relationship) sexual adventurism.

As one waits for the right person and the right amount of wealth

Which is quite a mystery to me because I thought (as our ancestors did) that marriage is about building together.

No wonder Africans are soon going to be going the pre-nuptial way of hollywood.......

In this white & black confusions: one-night stands (or such like "recreational sex" )prove you are beautiful/cool, marriage is a bore to postpone etc we are finding African men & women well into their 30s & even 40s......still waiting-and "sleeping" their lives away.

There is very little evidence that these long career/money makers and one-night standers become MORE ORGANIZED than those who marry in their 20s (ideal age if possible) who by now have children almost touching the their teens.....

Life is tricky. Dont let the media set up a fantasy in your mind.

When it comes to sex, we are taught (by the media) to believe it is our free right to muck about to prove that we can be happy. Something that two people (BLACK MAN & WOMAN!!) can achieve in a LIFE LONG RELATIONSHIP

You cant let these depraved (profiteers) just let lose your sexual fantasies to DESTROY YOU.

Now thats Pathetic.

FAMILY VALUES AFRICANS!!

[Devine]

Originally Posted by al-zalzalah

personally, i think the whole "independence" thing has gone overboard. but it is not a one-sided woman thing. together, we've created a society of misanthropes where men hate women and women hate men. and in order to fix that, one of the things we have to do is to be honest.

lazima tuheshimiane, na lazima tuache hii culture ya ubinafsi. there's nobody in this world who can live on his/ her own.

So true about men and women hating each other. I would also add disrespecting and not trusting each other. And you are absolutely right, the solution would be to talk frankly and openly about what affects us. Here's an excerpt I found in a comment to a newspaper article in another thread. Same applies to women, they are advised to declare guilt on their men until proven innocent. Now if both go into marriage with this mentality, will it last?

Quite some sound advice for men. All should heed.Women have increasingly become trecherous and men should know how to deal with them.Gone are the days when you could take them for granted.

In our lil Mashada, I've read a lot of men are only after one thing in women, all they want to do is shug her from the get go,but I choose to believe that that is an immature minority. The only problem becomes that the mature majority is usually silent on topics regarding men and women that s'one naive and not smart enough to filter through the Mashada chaff may come to believe that women only serve one purpose for men. But men and women fulfill so much more than just sex.

On the other hand, women are only after money. If you don't have it, you ain't getting any. These are plain oversimplifications, but that create that mistrust.

[KEMINOKANA]

Originally Posted by Dem Gal

I however have to disagree alittle with the author and this is purely because of what I have observed in my immediate social surrounding. Most of the girls who got married immediately after high school had to sacrifice so much and especially academically. Most joined community colleges just to get a skill to support them. In most cases, they had several kids back to back reducing their chances to develope their careers. I think that in countries in the US and Europe where they have opportunities and support form social services there are more chances of sucess even after early marriages.

Dem Gal is the sort of Evangelical that the author is talking about in this paragraph.

As we finally climb toward multigenerational economic success, we advise our children to finish their education, to launch their careers, and to become financially independent, since dependence is weakness. "Don't rush into a relationship," we caution them. "Hold out for a spouse who displays real godliness." "First loves aren't likely the best fit." "You have plenty of time!" we now remind them. "Don't bank on a mate." Even those who successfully married young now find themselves dispensing such parental wisdom with little forethought

I will disagree with Dem Gal for this reason among others:

Marrying young can spell poverty, at least temporarily. Yet the mentality that we need to shield young adults from the usual struggles of life by encouraging them to delay marriage until they are financially secure usually rests on an unrealistic standard of living. Good marriages grow through struggles, including economic ones. My wife and I are still fiscal conservatives because of our early days of austerity.

If indeed christians are serious about saving people, then it is contradictory with the "narrow gate" message of theirs to encourage people to follow the wide gate of education, career, money then marriage. Let people marry and struggle through it to establish themselves whilst avoiding fornication. Afterall, we are told worldly wealth is temporary. So why push people to pursue such wealth at the expense of the everlasting kingdom?

[OOWITI]

Originally Posted by Dem Gal

True,
This is classic Stockholm syndrome. The same reason Elizabeth Smart never left her kidnapper even with an opportunity to do so. In a marriage it becomes a very complex, confused, emotional situation where the victim has no idea nor social support to leave the abusive spouse. NO ONE is born deriving pleasure from pain. Neither is love supposed to hurt. Having been exposed to continous abuse this women's brains rationalizes it and even empathizes with their abusers. Its a survival technique for the brain to endure the abuse NOT to be confused with devotion and love.

a workmate/friend recently told me how her mother was single and were foreigners in us and her grandmother brought her up.her grandmother looked happy and ok with the house caring /activities after being married for over 50 years to her grandfather.I will call my friend sheila.Sheila was shocked after her grandfather died and her grandmother changed dramatically to a side none of them ever knew.She started swimming,dancing ,changed her way of dressing [this woman in her seventies] and when sheila asked her grandmother what happened-she said "i was stuck in a cage with your grandfather" and death was the key to get me out.He controlled what i did,wear ,activities etc.I loved to dance and swim but he wont let me.Now am free to be myself and what you saw was a mask while i was in prison with your GrandFather.His death set me free!!!
Living With a Killer

[Dem Gal]

Originally Posted by KEMINOKANA

Dem Gal is the sort of Evangelical that the author is talking about in this paragraph.

As we finally climb toward multigenerational economic success, we advise our children to finish their education, to launch their careers, and to become financially independent, since dependence is weakness. "Don't rush into a relationship," we caution them. "Hold out for a spouse who displays real godliness." "First loves aren't likely the best fit." "You have plenty of time!" we now remind them. "Don't bank on a mate." Even those who successfully married young now find themselves dispensing such parental wisdom with little forethought

I will disagree with Dem Gal for this reason among others:

Marrying young can spell poverty, at least temporarily. Yet the mentality that we need to shield young adults from the usual struggles of life by encouraging them to delay marriage until they are financially secure usually rests on an unrealistic standard of living. Good marriages grow through struggles, including economic ones. My wife and I are still fiscal conservatives because of our early days of austerity.

If indeed christians are serious about saving people, then it is contradictory with the "narrow gate" message of theirs to encourage people to follow the wide gate of education, career, money then marriage. Let people marry and struggle through it to establish themselves whilst avoiding fornication. Afterall, we are told worldly wealth is temporary. So why push people to pursue such wealth at the expense of the everlasting kingdom?

Kemi dear, thanks for teaching me something about myself that I didn't know. Unfortunately, that 'bus' left me 'ng'ethya-ng'ethyaring' at the stage kitaaambo'

However, I will say this for sure, if I had got married at 21, I would never have discovered 'myself' and the things that I love and value that make me uniquely me. I don't think I would ever trade that for anything in this world.

[Jerry D]

Originally Posted by Devine

This could be one reason why a wouldn't advocate for young marriage.

Foremost, sex is for marriage. Secondly, nature provides that a girl is ready for sex between ages of 9 and 16.

The other extreme side has it that between ages 40 and 48, a woman should desist from having sex since she has become procreatively incompetent...but men are still allowed, by nature, to indulge in sex. These stem from the fact that sex is foremost meant for procreation.

Having said those, and from a research I am currently undertaking that has its support from other controversial researches, girls should marry as young as 13 years whereas the old men should continue marrying beyond 80 years.

And since most of the girls above 13 have been booked by men of same age brackets, then the best people to engage the young girls into early marriages are the old men.

Old men should be encouraged to marry very young girls for the good of the society. Please let us not condemn early marriages for the sake since preliminary findings in the research I am doing indicate that young women are naturally attracted to very old men.

Now let me read the rest of the thread. Sorry if I included any derailment lines.

[OOWITI]

which research? Is your so called Research
In a civilised world or in a "caveman mentality society?" where some reasoning has no logic in it?? maybe that is why now older women are going for men less than half their age!!
It is more to do with lust "power & control" for a man of 80 years to go after a 13 year old or less girl.A man having sex with his great grandchildren ?????