Satan is not evil he is Christians true savior not Jesus.

[YB*]

Originally Posted by teejay

Taking the cue from the exegesis of the first part is only right to say without prejudice that When Peace is withdrawn then it is possible that the Vacuum is quickly filled with evil. Thus by withdrawing his peace God simply means that bad (also called evil) things take root within our human society. The divine balance is such that withdrawal of one leads to the other.

Absence of the so called peace will not automatically lead to evil. This argument is false.

What happens with absence of evil? Do we have peace? If we do, then God would not be necessary, as taking out evil we would have automatic peace. There is a state where we have no peace and no evil.

Societies in Africa lived in relative peace until the 18th century before the intro of the judaeocentric religion. If you can localise your examples. You know like God had left Rwanda in '94 and when he came back the evil was removed, that would be nice

[teejay]

Originally Posted by YB*

Absence of the so called peace will not automatically lead to evil. This argument is false.

You have not factored in the biblical contextual application of the peace itself.

Originally Posted by YB*

What happens with absence of evil? Do we have peace? If we do, then God would not be necessary, as taking out evil we would have automatic peace. There is a state where we have no peace and no evil.

I beg to digress. Taking out evil in biblical context means accepting to make peace with God as had been in the Garden of Eden. Evil only came in when the principles of peace as designated by God were violated.

Originally Posted by YB*

Societies in Africa lived in relative peace until the 18th century before the intro of the judaeocentric religion. If you can localise your examples. You know like God had left Rwanda in '94 and when he came back the evil was removed, that would be nice

God had not left Rwanda. It was Rwanda that choked herself in her prejudices of hatred. Her people refused to leave in harmony with one another as God's word of peace advocates... "Love thy neighbor as thou lovest thyself or do unto others as thou likest them do unto thee"

[teejay]

Wajibu, I did not really expect you to saturate your rage on my two cent. I had instead expected you to get me the definition of the word Evil. But as is evident, you seem to be too keen on vilifying God. Which essentially erodes the objectivity of the message you are trying to bring across. This also jeopardizes your position as a messenger, you had earlier on claimed to be.

Let me also take issue with the thinly veiled insults you laced your response with. We are not here to wrestle over our Educational levels but to logically debate issues to conclusive end with the truth as our sole objective. I am a college drop-out thus insufficient at least when your level is used as the gauge. Obviously this means educational mismatch. But lets put that aside is not the reason why we are engaging one another.

Can we now get the definition of the wordEvil.

[yangu]

Originally Posted by YB*

What reward?? He has the capacity to create perfect beings (angels). He can create perfect humans and reward them. Interesting stories Christians have.

Ha ha ha that is true.

[kip2002]

Originally Posted by wajibu

A while back someone pointed out how Satan is the unsung hero. Satan is not evil, he is the truth if I was a Christian I would trust him more and skeptical about God intentions. Satan is only guilty for being principled and rebelling against God’s evil ways. God being the ego maniac who hates dissidents and criticism condemned him to hell and blamed him for his evil ways. Christians can’t pinpoint anywhere in the bible where Satan is responsible for causing evil but I will exhibit numerous instances God was evil. God has admitted creating evil. Sometimes, Satan sounds likes Gods alter ego than an adversary. Even when Satan approached Adam and Eve he did not threaten with evil; he was presented and articulated his case which turned out to be true. God in his evil genius had entrusted the future of humankind on two naïve people. Who was more deceptive God or Satan? Did Satan commit delusion of grandeur by offering Adam and eve path of truth? What kind of benevolent God would banish and punish the entire human race for finding the truth from Satan. Adam and Eve had no knowledge of good and evil so they had no way of knowing what’s wrong. God being omniscient was too aware of what would happen.

This is the only true instances in the bible where Satan is involved with inflicting evil

• Job 1:6-2:3. In these 2 chapters Satan kills Jobs family, takes away everything he has and give him a horrible disease but all with the permission from God. He asks God if he could do those things to him.

On the flip side God is twisted, evil and a psychopath capable of the most horrible crimes

• Genesis 7:23 He killed, intentionally, every man, woman, and child on the planet save eight of them.

• God commands Hagar go back into servanthood and bear children for her master though she does not want to. Genesis 16:7-9

• Genesis 19:23-25 God burns down a whole city (women and children included) simply because they were supposedly homosexual.

• Er, Judah’s firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and that the Lord slew him. How was Er wicked? The Bible doesn’t give us this bit of information, only that Er was wicked in the sight of the Lord. Genesis 38:7

• Genesis 38:10 God murders Onan for refusing to commit incest with his sister in law.

• God endorses slavery. He even set up laws as to how slavery was to be carried out, and goes as far as okaying beating them. Exodus 21:2-6

• God sanctioned the selling of ones daughter. How can any being tell another to literally sell their child into slavery? Disgusting.. Exodus 21:7

• Exodus 32:27 God ordered to be killed, 3,000 Israelites for no greater crime than worshipping a golden calf. I don’t know about you, but death is a pretty harsh f@cking punishment.

• Leviticus 26:30 “And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shill ye eat.

• Leviticus 27:28-29: God ordered and allowed human sacrifices.

• Numbers 31:17-18 God commands Moses to kill all the Medianite people including children and women. To top it off he commands that the virgins be saved for later raping by Moses’ soldiers

.

• Deuteronomy 3:3-7: God ordered Moses’ army to "utterly destroy" 60 cities, killing all the women and children within.

• Deuteronomy 7:12: God ordered the Israelites to kill all the people of seven nations. He even adds, "show no mercy unto them".

• Deuteronomy 20:16: God orders that we kill everything that breathes in the cities that he gives us for an inheritance

Wajibu, you have argue your case, but with respect you are wrong. God is not evil at all, He is a loving, faithful and merciful God. He is the author of life too, so you cannot question Him at all. If you question him, it will like a pot questing a porter or a car questing a human being. We can argue with God, and He listens to our arguments, but He wins because we are always human and He is God. Wajibi, God is power and Glory, look at Jesus, we humans we always look at world glory eg money, good houses, nice cars and so forth.

Here comes Jesus with real power and Glory. He works in water, feeds 5000 with only few bread, raise the death, He himself died and was raise from the death. Heals the sick and so many miracles. With all this miracles and power, i think God deserve Glory and honor mr wajibu. i Even read a verse which God himself said show me anyone who can create all the things He has made and God himself will go and worship that god. We know God knew all along the path us human will take, and He did that because he is God. God even created the evil people for the day of destruction.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by kip2002

Jesus ... feeds 5000 with only few bread ... Heals the sick and so many miracles. With all this miracles and power, i think God deserve Glory and honor

God/Jesus created a world with places that (due to no wrong of man) are prone to severe drought. That design flaw resulted in famines that have led to millions upon millions of people dying of starvation. But you overlook this major problem, then when Jesus feeds 5,000 people (who weren't even dying of hunger) you then praise him for doing something that's something that's deserving of glory and honor. What about the other millions who died?

God/Jesus also created the pathogens that have killed millions in this world, and caused immeasureable suffering. Of those millions, Jesus cured a few (hundreds???) from disease caused by the same pathogens he created. And those were the few who happened to live in his era, and in his vicinity. And for that you want us to praise and glorify him? What about the other millions of dead and suffering?

Jesus had the power to end all hunger, and to cure all diseases in the world, but he didn't. Why? If he had done that, then I surely would have praised and glorified him. Right now glorifying him for the little he did is like (Minister of Transport) Ali Mwakwere tarmacing only 2 kilometers of all of Kenya's roads, then calling him a great transport minister!

[chotadipo]

Originally Posted by ATLian

...Right now glorifying him for the little he did is like (Minister of Transport) Ali Mwakwere tarmacing only 2 kilometers of all of Kenya's roads, then calling him a great transport minister!

Actually they do that!!!

[kip2002]

Originally Posted by ATLian

God/Jesus created a world with places that (due to no wrong of man) are prone to severe drought. That design flaw resulted in famines that have led to millions upon millions of people dying of starvation. But you overlook this major problem, then when Jesus feeds 5,000 people (who weren't even dying of hunger) you then praise him for doing something that's something that's deserving of glory and honor. What about the other millions who died?

God/Jesus also created the pathogens that have killed millions in this world, and caused immeasureable suffering. Of those millions, Jesus cured a few (hundreds???) from disease caused by the same pathogens he created. And those were the few who happened to live in his era, and in his vicinity. And for that you want us to praise and glorify him? What about the other millions of dead and suffering?

Jesus had the power to end all hunger, and to cure all diseases in the world, but he didn't. Why? If he had done that, then I surely would have praised and glorified him. Right now glorifying him for the little he did is like (Minister of Transport) Ali Mwakwere tarmacing only 2 kilometers of all of Kenya's roads, then calling him a great transport minister!

Got your message brother. Sometimes i question The Almighty too with all the evil, hunger and diseases i see today. But again He is God, they way we see things is different the way we see it. If you have read the Bible, all the bad things you are seeing in the world is because of the evil in the world. Again if all the chrisitians in the world would do as Jesus said, no one will be dying of hunger at this age where some have so much while others are dying of hunger. Remember what Jesus said, i was hungry and u did not feed me, i was homeless and u did not take me to your house, i was naked and u did not cloth me and many more.
Again, the Glory of God, His power is enough for humans to worship and respect Him, no question about that. The best of all, He has given us the free gift of salvation, our only job is to believe in His Son, and our sins are forgiven. You better be in the side of a powerful God, than trying to fight Him, because He created u brother and He has power to do what He wants to you anytime He wants. May the Almighty God Bless you, He is so merciful and Loving God.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by kip2002

Got your message brother. Sometimes i question The Almighty too with all the evil, hunger and diseases i see today.

... And when you question and things don't make sense, what do you do?

Originally Posted by kip2002

If you have read the Bible, all the bad things you are seeing in the world is because of the evil in the world.

i disagree.

On boxing day of 2004, a tsunami in the indian ocean killed 250,000 people. The bad after-effects of the tsunami and 250,000 dead are too many to mention. They include massive disease from having all those dead bodies around, starvation from total loss of all farmlands, poverty from lost property and businesses, loss of loved ones, loss of breadwinners resulting in thousands being forced into poverty, crime increasing as that becomes the only resort for those who have lost everything they ever owned and worked hard for, etc. A heck of a lot of bad came from that tsunami.

The tsunami occured because there was a major shift where two tectonic plates meet deep under the indian ocean. This resulted in the 2nd largest earthquake ever recorded, which triggered a massive wave, which because the tsunami. When god created the earth in his master-plan, it involved tectonic plates moving, and with that came massive earthquakes. In other words, god is 100% responsible for that tsunami, and for those 250,000 deaths. How do you then blame that kind of bad on evil, especially the evil of man? unless you're saying that god is evil?

Originally Posted by kip2002

Again if all the chrisitians in the world would do as Jesus said, no one will be dying of hunger at this age where some have so much while others are dying of hunger.

how exactly? and what about disease, would that also be cured if we just believed?

Originally Posted by kip2002

The best of all, He has given us the free gift of salvation, our only job is to believe in His Son, and our sins are forgiven.

if you have to do something in order to get a gift, then be definition that gift isn't free. Salvation definitely isn't free. You have to do a heck of a lot in order to receive it.

[kip2002]

if you have to do something in order to get a gift, then be definition that gift isn't free. Salvation definitely isn't free. You have to do a heck of a lot in order to receive it(wajibu)

Ok wajibu, i see u dont understand the true gospel of Jesus. Salvation is free after the coming of Jesus christ. Before that, it was not free at all, you had to do alot of things to earn ua salvation. Now our work is to believe in Jesus, after we believe the Holy spirit will come and dwell in us and guide us to do good works of Jesus. But remember many people will go to hell not because of the sins they did, but because the refuse to believe in Jesus. They are even very good people who rarely sin who will go to hell even though they because they dont believe in Jesus.