[solomatic]

y5next,

you're very right.

the issue at hand is INTELLECTUAL GROWTH.

This is the web for god's sake and who cares whether or not we 'win' or 'fail'? the object is growth, which sadly, so many are INCAPABLE of understanding.

BUT: It truly NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME, the level at which so-called intellectual discourse is presented on this Mashada. I don't know the age-range of posters, but i really am so disillusioned after viewing the thought processes presented by so many kenyans here. Somebody somewhere is really laughing at us.

No wonder a number of OBVIOUSLY CLEVER people left this site and joined others where the arguing is healthy and enlightening.

What is wrong with Kenyans?

[solomatic]

And I almost forgot (and unlike others, I will not mention specific names):

How amazing that certain erstwhile members of this forum are so quick to run away from a fight and hide when they realise they have been cornered. That is outright WEAKLING behaviour.

I have been attacked because of my race and yet have never said anything negative like BLACKS ARE THE CAUSE OF MY MISERY. Yet, time and again, the whole INDIANS ARE RUINING KENYA argument has popped up veiled and unveiled.

Grow up people. Some of you exibit really juvenile mannerisms.

LEARN and GROW.

And get your heads out of silly arguments.

[y5next]

>the issue at hand is INTELLECTUAL GROWTH.

And as a member of the Mashada family, and a Kenyan as well , you have the responsibility of presenting your discourse in a manner that does not let others laugh at us. Remember we are in this together. The good and the bad is a reflection on us collectively to those that don't know the difference. With criticism, there must be constructive ideas presented to temper it. Otherwise it's the same whine, moan and groan that we're all tired and fed up of listening to.

>BUT: It truly NEVER CEASES TO AMAZE ME, the level at which so-called intellectual discourse is presented on this Mashada. I don't know the age-range of posters, but i really am so disillusioned after viewing the thought processes presented by so many kenyans here.

Intelligent discourse is not solely a function of age. Other factors contribute majorly. Economic background and current circumstance, level of interraction with others of different background, literacy, social repsonsibility. Those are a few I can think of off-hand. Our collective responsibility is to encourage POSITIVE growth. There are those that will be susceptible and those that will not. Time will determine that.

>Somebody somewhere is really laughing at us.

And the only way for that laughter to die out, is for us to consciously fight the good fight of common sense, idea sharing, e.t.c. We can't just complain. Excuses will not do anymore.


>No wonder a number of OBVIOUSLY CLEVER people left this site and joined others where the arguing is healthy and enlightening.

It's easier to maintain an existing community than to build a thriving one.They left because they were not willing to hunker down to the hard work of building this one. Always been a problem in our society. We want to get "there" but we don't want to make the journey to get there. They're clever now, but those of us that choose to stay and build this one will benefit too.

>What is wrong with Kenyans?

Nothing. People the world over have the same issues and concerns that we do. Difference is, we have a magnifying glass to ours because we live them on a daily basis.

[stupak]

With nothing to do with intelligence Solomatic I completely disagree with you that majority of Kenyans are narrow-minded, petty and all the other names that you used. Maybe I know only five Kenyans but the five I know are a representative of the Kenyan population and are not narrow-minded!

[stupak]

....and yeah I also almost forgot if Kenyans are truly all those things you say, how come majority of us that leave the country do very well. Like in the US display responsibility and great ambition and yet we have gone through the same pri and sec. education that those people in Kenya have. Or...are we also norrow-minded and petty. Kenyans back home are simply poor, very very poor and so they will accept a bribe to put food on the table. Yes, it is wrong but it is not narrow-minded.

[solomatic]

y5next,

increasingly, i have began to wonder whether or not we really are 'in this together', and although i am big enough to confess that i have on many occasions dragged mashada into the gutter, i am also able to say that i expect others to wake up and change themselves too, when i am also attempting to grow and change. THAT is 'being in this together'.

you say that:

> Intelligent discourse is not solely a
>function of age. Other factors
>contribute majorly. Economic background
>and current circumstance, level of
>interraction with others of different
>background, literacy, social
>repsonsibility.

true indeed. but you know what else? we were all placed in our present positions (poor/rich, educated/uneducated etc) because we have to climb out of whatever ignorance surrounds us and try ALWAYS to be better person. THESE REASON YOU MENTIONED CANNOT BE EXCUSES for the gutter levels we continuously roll in everyday. EVERYBODY here has to put an effort into it, not just the one or two more enlightened members of this forum.


>>Somebody somewhere is really laughing at us.
>
> And the only way for that laughter to
>die out, is for us to consciously fight
>the good fight of common sense, idea
>sharing, e.t.c. We can't just complain.
>Excuses will not do anymore.

true again. but this mashada is one vicious cycle of idea STEALING and not sharing.


>>No wonder a number of OBVIOUSLY CLEVER people left this site and joined others where the arguing is healthy and enlightening.
>
> It's easier to maintain an existing
>community than to build a thriving
>one.They left because they were not
>willing to hunker down to the hard work
>of building this one. Always been a
>problem in our society. We want to get
>"there" but we don't want to make the
>journey to get there. They're clever
>now, but those of us that choose to stay
>and build this one will benefit too.

i agree somewhat but must point out that those who left probably found that the levels of intellectual sustenance they needed could not be found here anytime soon. and i commend them for having the foresight to head to greener pastures. once again, IT IS ABOUT GROWTH. and those who have left were/are not afraid of 'hunkering' down; i think they just needed something better right now. (and that is not meant to put down those like you, the rest and myself who have remained behind).


>>What is wrong with Kenyans?
>
> Nothing. People the world over have the
>same issues and concerns that we do.
>Difference is, we have a magnifying
>glass to ours because we live them on a
>daily basis.

i'm glad/sad to hear the rest of the world is like kenya.

anyway, thank you for cornering me and i have listened and will try to grow.

you must accept that i have improved remarkably, no?

[solomatic]

Stupak, this is threatening to turn into one of those winding threads that willt take a century to upload.

so since we will not see eye to eye at all, let's just wish one another the best and move on.

all the best!!

[makaveli]

Mashada became a circus where people instead of articulately expressing their thoughts and ideas, resort to mudslinging and baseless arguments. You end up throwing out a good post with stupid rhetorics about race and gender.
Instead of most of you trying to show your superiority, you should start by learning the basics, which is to answer the GODDAMN POST.

[Mark Twist Thuo]

>Mashada became a circus where people
>instead of articulately expressing their
>thoughts and ideas, resort to
>mudslinging and baseless arguments. You
>end up throwing out a good post with
>stupid rhetorics about race and gender.
>Instead of most of you trying to show
>your superiority, you should start by
>learning the basics, which is to answer
>the GODDAMN POST.

ER... Makaveli- words of wisdom I'll grant you that. No need for fighting.

But where, pray tell, do you depart from the rest and to use your own words,

>answer
>the GODDAMN POST.

Just curious. Thats all.

[makaveli]

how about businessmen like Nashaud Meralia, Chris Kirubi and many others. The guy of Sameer really gave me inspiration by willing to put up millions of dollars in setting up a mobile phone company in a country where mobile phones were mainly for the rich. Instead of taking his money to Switzerland, he decided to inject it into Kenya. The result. He cut down unemployment by a couple of thousand people.