[Mark Twist Thuo]

>You will please note that the so-called
>Karl Marx student 'leader' appeared on
>Nation Television drunk as a skunk a few
>years ago, embarrasing himself and the
>'movement' he purports to lead. He even
>declared how bad he felt over that whole
>episode some time later.... I think in a
>newspaper interview....

Irrelevant!


>Exactly what is his agenda/manifesto?

Why don't you ask this question instead of prefacing it with the above mud slinging? Are you really interested in knowing or are you just using this question to make a rhetoric statement?

>I don't think anyone in their right mind
>should look to Kenyan University
>students for salvation.

They should look to who? You? Racist bastard!

>Those 'students', aside from being blind
>to the ever-dicrepit physical and
>intellectual standards of their
>institutions have failed (almost on the
>whole) to remove the "Kenyan" shackles
>binding their minds. Why don't they
>clean up the university, cut the grass,
>havea funds drive and paint the walls,
>invite visiting proffesors from other
>african countries, stop stealing books
>from the library, stop having stupid
>riots over meatballs, stoning innocent
>wananchi and stealing ideas from
>somebody else's ideology (e.g. the name
>Karl Marx)?

Why are you so infuriatingly ignorant?

>Why do Kenyans praise wazungus and
>overlook their own?

Which wazungus are we praising?

< Cut out for general irrelevance>

>Reality:
>
>The majority of generations in Kenya
>today are doomed. No love between them;
>just pettiness, kichinichini,
>kuchimbana, wivu, narrow-mindedness,
>arrogance, thorough brainwashed-ness
>etc.

Whose reality? Tell us more god

>Prediction:
>
>The coming president will sell out the
>country, sell its industries off to
>westerners in the guise of
>privatisation, while the majority of
>Kenyans continue the ad finitum practice
>of kuchimbana, kichinichini wivu and
>misplaced arrogance.

Another useless wastage of David's server space and 40 seconds of my life!

[neema]

Mtt,

The fact that I mentioned those two women does not automatically limit the recognition of the male heroes? And even if that was my intention, what’s to you? You are not limited to mentioning who you think would be worth. In any case, Those two women played significant roles in the Kenyan history and I think that they are not given enough attention. Hence, Stupak’s “myth” response and am sure she’s not the only one.

I don’t (not that am trying to )understand why you are always too quick to offer your baseless rebuttal.

You have a tendency of taking one’s opinion, twisting it to fit you and then concluding with abstracts from God knows where... And you wonder why you’ve been labeled Mr. Know it all. I advise that next time you chose to refute, please cross-examine first.

ps. Kudos for your well researched Kyuk history

[solomatic]

Exactly as expected.


ONE:
Re: the "irrelevance" of Karl Marx's drunken state:

That fool was given the opportunity to speak his mind and present his manifesto to Kenyans on NATIONAL TELEVISION. I am sure they didn't call him five minutes before airtime which means he had AMPLE TIME to formulate his manifesto and refrain from drinking before appearing on t.v. If he was serious and believed in whatever 'convictions' he purports to adhere to, he would have seized that opportunity to convince the increasingly JADED majority that his so-called 'movement' was serious. Instead, he appeared DRUNK.

By excusing all this and calling it 'irrevelant', you condone the shallowness and halfbaked-ness that is representative of Kenyan politics.


TWO:
>>Exactly what is his agenda/manifesto?
>
>Why don't you ask this question instead
>of prefacing it with the above mud
>slinging? Are you really interested in
>knowing or are you just using this
>question to make a rhetoric statement?

I asked the question basically because like the MAJORITY of other Kenyans, I remember the DRUNKEN STATE he appeared in, the ridiculous debating he engaged in, the violence and NOT ANY SINGLE POINT from any manifesto whatsoever.

THREE:
>>I don't think anyone in their right mind
>>should look to Kenyan University
>>students for salvation.
>
>They should look to who? You? Racist
>bastard!

Stop calling me racist YOU RACIST BASTARD. Need we scroll down the mashada archives and laugh our hearts out at the completely RACSIT threads you have sometimes begun? Need we be reminded of the one in which you went all out against Luos, then another in which you went all out against the percieved Indian threat???

FOUR:
>>Those 'students', aside from being blind
>>to the ever-dicrepit physical and
>>intellectual standards of their
>>institutions have failed (almost on the
>>whole) to remove the "Kenyan" shackles
>>binding their minds. Why don't they
>>clean up the university, cut the grass,
>>havea funds drive and paint the walls,
>>invite visiting proffesors from other
>>african countries, stop stealing books
>>from the library, stop having stupid
>>riots over meatballs, stoning innocent
>>wananchi and stealing ideas from
>>somebody else's ideology (e.g. the name
>>Karl Marx)?
>
>Why are you so infuriatingly ignorant?

Kenyan univeristies are in a SAD state. Intellectually inferior etc (see above). If those students spent a little time cleaning up their surroundings abd refraining from engaging in ridiculous activities, they might actually learn something and stop having to be sent home every other day because the rioted due to a lack of meatballs. Nothing arrogant in that. And they should go ahead and slash the wild unkempt grass, stop stealing books from the library and stop stoning innocent wananchi everytime they feel 'slighted'. They need to grow up.

FIVE:
>>Why do Kenyans praise wazungus and
>>overlook their own?
>
>Which wazungus are we praising?

Did you read Gaidi Sugu's original post? Go back up their usome tena then you'll know what I was talking about.

SIX:
>< Cut out for general irrelevance>

POint out the 'irrelevance' and I can defend myself.

SEVEN:
>>Reality:
>>
>>The majority of generations in Kenya
>>today are doomed. No love between them;
>>just pettiness, kichinichini,
>>kuchimbana, wivu, narrow-mindedness,
>>arrogance, thorough brainwashed-ness
>>etc.
>
>Whose reality? Tell us more god

Solomatic says: The reason Kenya is where it is today is due to the above. And I forgot to add INEFFICIENCY and OUTRIGHT STUPIDITY. I think GOD would agree.


EIGHT:
>>Prediction:
>>
>>The coming president will sell out the
>>country, sell its industries off to
>>westerners in the guise of
>>privatisation, while the majority of
>>Kenyans continue the ad finitum practice
>>of kuchimbana, kichinichini wivu and
>>misplaced arrogance.
>
>Another useless wastage of David's
>server space and 40 seconds of my life!

A wonderful couple of minutes spent by myself.

[Mark Twist Thuo]

>Mtt,
>
>The fact that I mentioned those two
>women does not automatically limit the
>recognition of the male heroes? And even
>if that was my intention, what’s
>to you? You are not limited to
>mentioning who you think would be worth.
>In any case, Those two women played
>significant roles in the Kenyan history
>and I think that they are not given
>enough attention. Hence, Stupak’s
>“myth” response and am sure
>she’s not the only one.

Neema

You used the words, "if only they emphasized..." and then mentioned the two women. Gaidi's post is about all our heroes. It could be a question of semantics but the way I understood it is that your only problem was with the marginalisation of our heroines and not our heroes.

Secondly, you are right that Stupak is not the only one who may not have known more about this myth. You are part of it too by including Wangu wa Makeri amongst our heroines. She was not! She was an appointee like I pointed out to you and you should be thanking me for providing you with more information on her. I also gave you an example of Kinyanjui wa Gathirimu if you paid attention.

The purpose of that was to show you that colonialists usually picked someone unpopular and made them chiefs and headmen. Apply that to wa Makeri's case.

Mekatilili on the other hand we agree on. A true hero whose name ranks with Waiyaki wa Hinga and Koitale arap Samoei as the first victims of political persecutions in Kenya.


>I don’t understand why you are
>always too quick to offer your baseless
>rebuttal. You have a tendency of taking
>one’s opinion, twisting it to fit
>you and then concluding with abstracts
>from God know where. And you wonder why
>you’ve been labeled Mr. Know it
>all. I advise that next time you chose
>to refute, please cross-examine first.

The reason I'm so quick to respond is to prevent you from continuing to hold onto distorted facts.

I've never wondered why I've been labelled mr -know-whatever. Fortunately, I learnt early that knowledge is power and is the only thing that cannot be taken from you.

Now, I don't know you from Adam but I know something about your opinion. And that is that it doesn't stand up to historical scrutiny. Your claim that mine is a baseless rebuttal is negated by the fact that I offered you a legitimate source for my contention. I did not just say it, I presented a document to back up my claim. You call that baseless?

[stupak]

<<<<The majority of generations in Kenya today are doomed. No love between them; just pettiness, kichinichini, kuchimbana, wivu, narrow-mindedness, arrogance, thorough brainwashed-ness etc.>>>>

Solomatic, for somebody who claims to be Kenyan and to love Kenya and it's people you sure don't sound like it. Ati majority of Kenyans are petty, narrow-minded and doomed. Can you listen to yourself. I would never say anything like this about Kenyans. Why? Because I know them and I am one of them and so are my friends, family and teachers. For you to say this makes me think that you really think this of Kenyans yet it is soooo not true. the false part is where you say majority......You cannot claim to be Kenyan only when it suits you and complain that Kenyans are racist ati they treat "your people" like they are not Kenyan. How can you be Kenyan and say something like this about our people. So which minority in Kenya is not narrow-minded, petty and all those things you have called us????? mmmmmh I wonder!

[solomatic]

Stupak, where exactly did you grow up? You say:

>I would never say anything like this about Kenyans.

Hiding from the problem is the EXACT reason why Kenya is where it is today and please stop veiling racist intentions by saying

>You cannot claim to be Kenyan only when it suits you and complain that Kenyans are racist ati they treat "your people" like they are not Kenyan.

Stupak, it didn't "suit" me to declare my ethnic origins on Mashada which is rife with RACISTS. I could have pretended to be some guy called Odhiambo or Karanja. I happen to be indian/somali and unlike the MAJORITY of clowns on this website, don't give a rat's ass whether or not anybody thinks I'm worse than they are. But that's beside the point...

And by the way, what exactly is the point you were trying to make with that statement since I honestly can't figure it out?


Stupak,
You say you "know" Kenyans? Well, judging from your post, you must know only five Kenyans and not the MAJORITY who consistently vote along tribal lines and practice nepotism and corruption, which is the reason Kenya is where it is today.


You say:
>So which minority in Kenya is not narrow-minded, petty and all those things you have called us????? mmmmmh I wonder!

Which "us" are you refering to in this sentence when you say "all those things you have called us"? Please clarify.

The minority tht isn't narrow-minded, petty and all those other things is the one that votes for the right candidate and not along tribal lines, hires the person most suited for the job and not some brother-in-law, refuses to accept or dish out bribes etc, etc.

Or were you thinking I would say the minority are Indians and whites?

Could we try to lift the levels of debate on this website please?

[y5next]

I read a lot of your posts and learn new things on a daily basis. I am probably one of the few here that is not afraid of being shown up or educated because I’m not embarassed by what I do not know, or have little knowledge of. Life itself is a continuing learning process. Most of you, with a few un-named, are intelligent, coherent and not in the book learning sense. You have views and opinions that make me go hmmm!
On the flip side, I find some of the discussions an interesting window to the thoughts behind your posts. The one that stands out for me is the obsession to be right in everything. Learning requires the humility to be able to listen and digest an opposing view without distraction, and the ability to respect that view, however radical it may seem. There are some that you can throw out the window as being irrelevant, but for the most part the views and opinions are legitimate.
Which brings me to the title of my thread. I find that it works better to disagree without aggravating others. Those that disagree with my points, and proceed to hurl insults and abuses as their points in the arguments amuse me. I am neither intimidated nor cowed. I can resort to the same, but it accomplishes nothing. I already know that I can dish it out as much, if not worse, as some have learnt the hard way. Have you ever noticed that when you put a bunch of crabs in a bucket, they fight and claw each other trying to get out, and none is able to? That is what this will degenerate into if we allow it. We all enjoy coming here, reading the posts, contributing what we have, so why not be able to do so in a civil manner. It does not make you any lesser of a man or a woman. If your points have merit, let them stand out on their own. If you support someone’s views, let it be because of your conviction to the issue at hand, not because you are friends and you do not want to upset your friend. If you disagree, let it be because you have opposing points to make, not because of some perceived slight. We all aspire to greatness, and in the process associate with the average and mediocre too. Those also have lessons to teach. Maybe if you took a moment to understand them, you will be that much closer to the greatness you seek in whatever field you are in.

[it_wasnt_me]

Solomatic, Neema
As mashada charter members, i am amazed that you guys still give this 'rookie' rebuttals or even respond to him. We all know he has an acute case of verbal diarhhoea encompased with a gigantic ego. MTT choses to embrace asinine misplaced perspectives and at the same time masquarade as a 'mr. know-it-all' in all forums. To make matters worse, his amorphous arguments only propagate him as a dweller of the bottom most strata in common sense!!!wacheni na huyu mtoto apayuke!!!

[neema]

Mtt,

I take it that your only biff here, is that I mentioned Wangu wa Makeri under the heroes and heroines post ? I hope am right.

N'way, having clearly understood her character and her position in the kikuyu society, then I understand why you don't think she should be mentioned as a heroine. However, i beg to differ. I will always wonder what would have happened if the women were never impregnated.

It_Wasn't_me, bila words for you... dammmmnn

[Proletariat]

A good observation. It all boils down to decolonizing our minds!