Wagalla victims still waiting for justice

[Muigai Mwaura]

The culprits ought to be prosecuted and the victims compensated - but not by the "government". The government after all can compensate the victims only by imposing the cost on wananchi at large. This is unjust since the overwhelming majority of wananchi had nothing to do with this episode. Identify the people who gave and executed the order for massacre and make them pay. A nation where government officials know that they will be held personally responsible for any abuses they commit in office will be a nation that has an effective deterrent against this sort of behavior.

http://www.nationaudio.com/News/Dail...030220040.html

[mumgy]

>The culprits ought to be prosecuted and the victims
>compensated - but not by the "government". The government
>after all can compensate the victims only by imposing the cost
>on wananchi at large. This is unjust since the overwhelming
>majority of wananchi had nothing to do with this episode.
>Identify the people who gave and executed the order for
>massacre and make them pay. A nation where government
>officials know that they will be held personally responsible
>for any abuses they commit in office will be a nation that has
>an effective deterrent against this sort of behavior.

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU MR. MWAURA,YOU HAVE SPOKEN VERY WISELY ON THE PLIGHT OF THE WAGALLA.SORRY FOR GOING OFF TOPIC BUT I WISH YOU WOULD SAY THE EXACT WORDS AS THEY APPEAR ABOVE WITH THE CASE MBAI MURDER TOO.IT WOULD HELP ENLIGHTEN SOME OF OUR BROTHERS HERE WHO GAVE REALLY MEAN REMARKS ABOUT THE ISSUE.

[jmburus]

hapo ni kweli...

[Kamale]

>I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU MR. MWAURA,YOU HAVE SPOKEN VERY
>WISELY ON THE PLIGHT OF THE WAGALLA.SORRY FOR GOING OFF TOPIC
>BUT I WISH YOU WOULD SAY THE EXACT WORDS AS THEY APPEAR ABOVE
>WITH THE CASE MBAI MURDER TOO.IT WOULD HELP ENLIGHTEN SOME OF
>OUR BROTHERS HERE WHO GAVE REALLY MEAN REMARKS ABOUT THE
>ISSUE.

Who should be compensating Mbai? We have absolutely no idea who killed him. For the Wagalla massacre, we know who did it. I think you missed the point of the Muigai's post, and then tried to introduce anon-issue here.

MM, the draft constitution (yeah, that one being discussed in Bomas!!)says that officers in the armed forces can ignore an unlawful order, and not be punished. Present law as it is has no such waiver. Do we then surcharge the people that followed the orders? If we follow your suggestion, do we then divorce the maxim "Government of the people, for the people and by the people"as a description of a democracy? Essentially, we pay for putting these people in power!

[Muigai Mwaura]

"we pay for putting these people in power!"

Are you saying that Moi's government had a legitimate mandate from Kenyans to govern the nation? How and when was that mandate acquired?

"Do we then surcharge the people that followed the orders?"

Nazi criminals tried at Nuremburg and other war crimes tribunals were also held to account even though they claimed that they "were only following orders." Mans laws and justice are not necessarily compatible, but justice must prevail.

[Kamale]

>"we pay for putting these people in power!"
>
>Are you saying that Moi's government had a legitimate mandate
>from Kenyan's to govern the nation? How and when was that
>mandate acquired?
>

Moi was legitimately in power, as no law was ever "broken" when kenyans "elected" him. Is the law an *****? This probably shows it best, for Moi's rule was only illegitimate in our minds!


>"Do we then surcharge the people that followed the orders?"
>
>Nazi criminals tried at Nuremburg and other war crimes
>tribunals were also held to account even though they claimed
>that they "were only following orders." Man's laws and justice
>are not neccessarily compatible, but justice must prevail.

At the risk of belabouring the point, as much as I would like whoever was involved punished, I do not think there are available laws in our books to convict the culprits. Remember, it was invariably wished away as a necessary security operation. I do not think the Wagalla people ever asked for compensation, but they have asked for an apology which has not been forthcoming from this or the previous government, and I think the reasons are pretty clear why.

[mumgy]

Kamale,
I have never been rude to you in any of these discussions.First I apologised for going off topic before writing coz I knew with the pettiness here the issue would be brought up,secondly I gave the suggestions to Mwaura not you.Thirdly Mbai murder is not a non sense issue as you put it.Whether he was murdered by Nyagah or "just theives"he deserves justice.What Mwaura said for the Wagalla massacre also applies for Mbai in fact they are so simalar only that the Wagalla are many.Both parties deserve justice"..identify the people who gave and executed the order..."
Lastly your arrogance does not intimidate me.Just because I'm female and I don't agree with you does not mean I'm a fool.
Thanks with love,
Mumgy

[Sadik]

Following the logic presented, the many who were displaced in the tribal clashes in Rift Valley particularly in Molo and are now squatters should also not be settled by the Gov't because doing so will only burden the whole peoples of Kenya including many who were not part nor participated in the clashes.

Oh! The displaced in Molo were Kikuyus and should be COMPENSATED by the Gov't of the day while those massacred in Wagalla are Somalis and the hyenas say should not be compensated by the Gov't of the day.

Hyprocrites?

[Muigai Mwaura]

Where have I ever talked about GK compensating victims of ethnic clashes? Following the line of reasoning that even a man of your limited talents could follow, victims of crime should be compensated by the perpetrators whether the victims are Somali, Kikuyu or Martians. Not everyone here is driven by primordial instincts emanating from their spinal cords dictating that they wallow in ethnic effluent. Some of us believe in principles that apply to all regardless of ethnicity.

"Wakili" try thinking with your brain, it’s what distinguishes human beings from lower forms of life.

[Sadik]

I note everytime I exposed your covert tribalism, you usually respond with insults.