[mangwata]

during the last 3 weeks or so some material has been circulating over the internet about mcs using ghostwriters and a pool in writing their lyrics that is our famous and favourite rap stars dont write their own lyrics i really got dissapointed realising that some of the cats who i gave dignity and props were mere substandard not writing their lyrics as we know that in hiphop a real mc writes his own material unlike other music genres
read through


-Fabolous Sport-
Registered User



Joined: Sep 2003
Reppin': South Side Chi-Town

» Ignore This Hater! This Is My Official Fu-k The Industry Thread........

Fu-k what you've heard about the industry to now, fu-k all major record labels and fu-k all major recording artists as well, fu-k Nas, Jay, Em, Nelly, Chingy, Jermaine Dupri, Dr. Dre, Russell Simmons, The ROC, All Of Shady, Desert Storm, R. Kelly, Fabolous, Joe Budden, all mainstream rappers I haven't mentioned. Let me tell you the real industry............

I've been signed for about 4 months now to a major label and now I wish I never started rapping, producing, or even getting into the music business, I'm going to college. You know why underground rappers never shine?? You wanna know why it's so hard to get a deal?? You wanna know why some artists can write 6-7 albums while some cats struggle to write one?? You wanna know why It's more A&R's that exists on labels than it is actual artists on the label?? You wanna know why Interscope is suppressing the whole Eminem thing??

Here Goes.......

Most cats believe they can get a deal by spittin' some sick lyrics or making some good songs, wrong. You know what labels do?? A&R's don't look for artists, not at all, Labels sign around 25 artists per decade and then freeze signings. A&R's don't go look for the next big artists, they look for hit songs and writing pools and people who can sing backup vocals. A&R's aren't worried about finding artists with star quality that have interesting backgrounds, oh no, not at all.

Here's how they do rappers.........Raping-U-Records artists are starting to get old and played out so they send an A&R out to find a punkass rapper who lives in a respectable area. Next, they make sure the artist is marketable, then they'll sign the artist. Now Rapper A has a record deal with no previous history of rapping, next the label will setup a front to make it look like they discovered the artist (might sign a kid first, then set it up to make it look like this kid was rapping in front of a crowd at a gas station where a highly known A&R just happened to be getting gas from).

Next, they'll sit down with the artist and have this reality talk to them, explaining to them that the industry is a business and none of this is real. Now, they'll overexagerate their background and even lie about their age and where they grew up, they'll push a suburban to a harder area then they're really from. They find a an angle (pop's died, parents divorced, got shot, sold drugs, friend died) and push that angle to build the artist sentimental respect (who likes a punk who lived a perfect life??). They'll use that angle to build a story around them and how that event or events affected them.

Now, they hit the studio, right?? Wrong!! Now here is what real A&R's are meant for. They'll send out their A&R's and stupid cats like me will kill to get the demo in their hands, once these A&R's have a good number of SOLICITED demo's they'll tell Rappers B, C and D to send the label some material. Rappers B, C and D think they might get a deal, so they get their demo package together with Bio, Pic's, Press Kit and the actual demo. They probably tellin' their guys that they finna get signed and ish. Wrong........

Now A&R B is at the label listening to the demos of Rapper B, C and D. A&R B doesn't care for anything but the songs. A&R B is really feeling Rapper B and D's demo's (capable hit songs) but not Rapper C. So that's when Rapper C gets the rejection letter. Now the A&R is interested in Rapper B & D's material, so they'll write them and ask them to send more material, now B & D really think they're gonna get signed.

A&R B listens again and feels as if Rapper D isn't as good as he thought he was but still feels Rapper B. Now he sends a rejection letter to Rapper D. Now the contact is made with Rapper B and a meeting is set up. Sounds lovely right?? Keep Reading....A&R B and Rapper B and a few exec's have a meeting and now Rapper B is hit with REALITY. A&R B explains the real music business and gives Rapper B a choice, either walk out that door and be forever blackballed or the alternative.

You remember Rapper A, right?? Rapper B has been hit with the reality that he will never be a star. Rapper B just sent in about 10 songs to A&R B which were purchased and now will be on Rapper A's album. Rapper B is now merely part of a writing pool, he will continue to make songs under the supervision of an A&R, only not for himself, for everyone else. Now Rapper B sends about 10-20 songs to Rapin-U-Records every 3 months and now Rapper A, Rapper X, Rapper J and Singer T go through Rapper B's material as well as the other hundred's of Rappers and Singers that are merely writing pools material and pick which song they want on their album.

Now here is where the process takes place, Rapper A chooses 3 songs from Rapper B, 4 songs from Rapper Y and 2 songs from Singer U to make an album. Rapper A might want to do his own song so the label gives Rapper A 2 slots to do his own songs. When the album is finished, starving artists in writing pools are paid off and SILENCED. Now you can read the credits and see Rapper A's name all over, but it's to fool you, the sheep, the cats who buy the albums and the stupid chickenheads that believe anything in writing.

Rapper A has candy stories and rumors started by people at the label that grow and make the Rapper more respectable, more harder and more controversial to keep the life span of Rapper A alive. Guess what?? If an A&R finds someone else who's making better songs than Rapper B, they cut him off and blackball him to keep him silenced, it's that simple, *** what you heard and believe. Beef?? Real or fake?? Ima tell you this, more beef's in the past and present then you brainwashed mutha***az will ever believe are fake, some are real but even then you'll believe what you want. Once Rapper A falls off (not lyrically, not songwise) marketwise, they drop them and a new era of MUSIC INDUSTRY BULLSH*T arises.

And that's just the rappers, I'm not even going to get into producing, all Ima say is that most of your respectable producers are merely NAMES, you believe PRODUCER B is ths ish?? PRODUCER B can produce, but how do you think they can produce so many hot songs at one time?? They don't, a label will send out A&R's to find clones (people who've been influenced and therefore have the same sound) of the producer and the same process as with Rapper's A, B, C and D will spark up with producers too. THINK ABOUT IT........

Why do think it took Twista and Memphis Bleek so long to come out again, huh?? Cuz they wanted to write their own albums and didn't want to fall victim, too bad that's not for most of the ROC. Why do you think Ali Vegas will probably never drop and even when he drops, watch what happens......Why do you think 50 Cent couldn't get a deal after Trackmasters?? How come the Bravehearts took so long?? And then didn't even get pushed, promoted or even have money put behind them?? Hey Chicago, where is 3Piece?? Why do you think both MTV MC Battles promised Def Jam and Roc-A-Fella Contracts but Reignman's on his own label and Wreckognize aint on the Roc?? How come Shawnna got shelved?? Why did Universal lie about Nelly's age?? Why did it take Jin some 2 and a half years to come out with a single?? Where the hell is Postaboy?? What did Mase get exposed to that made him choose God over Millions of dollars?? Cats know the truth and don't like it, it's that simple.......

How would you like it if you've been rapping since you were 7, been hustlin demos, doing meaningless talent showcases and then you finally get a deal at age 20 and now you've become Rapper B?? The industry messes people up for real and half these cats who see the Bling Bling and girls think that's all their is, it's like finding out God doesn't really exists and now I've become Rapper B.

Sh*t like this gets cats killed for real, the industry is shady and what you've seen on TV, them DVD's, in interviews, VH1, MTV, whatever is nothing but the "GHOST INDUSTRY" that you've been led to believe is how it is and none of you have any idea, I hate the music industry, I hate the entertainment business, I'm going to college, getting my degree and am leaving this is behind me, FU*K COLUMBIA RECORDS and most of all, ya'll can SU*K my D*CK. To the industry heads on here, F*CK U, go ahead, yeah, I've broken the silence, only the underground is real, FU*K the industry.......

I'm uppin this til everyone reads it, I thought I was about live out my dream and now I've been exposed to the nightmare that is the industry. I was brainwashed, now I'm not, everything I've said in this post is the truth, anything you've heard or been led to believe is bull, this post applies to all them STUDIO wankstaz.......

Cat's I know got ghostwriters and songs come from writing pools.........*** what you believe........

Clipse
Snoop
Nas
D-Block
Eminem
Fabolous
Biggie
Static
Joe Budden
Nelly
Mase
Chingy
Ludacris
Kanye West
Trick Daddy
Cassidy
Jay-Z
Young Gunz
Murphy Lee

And about a bunch of cats I'm too pissed to mention right now......I'm uppin this til the world blows up, think about this ish seriously and a lot of ish will start to make more sense......

-Welcome To The Real Music Industry-

__________________
-PHEDERAL OPHENSE-

[mangwata]

Mr. Belvedere
MC



Definitely very interesting and i'm sure all that goes on but some of the artists you nmaed are questionable, Jay-Z for example. Dude couldn't get signed and had to start his own label to get a record out. He ghost writes for alot of artists and has a distinct style. Why would he use a writing pool or a ghostwriter? I never heard of writing pools but I had my own idea that is the same. I theorized that alt of rappers get records written by a group of people. Thta's definitely what the ST.Lunatics do with Nelly. But some mc's are real. I can't believe that Nas has used ghostwriters or writing pools. Same with Eminem. The rest I can see, even Biggi cause of Puff Diggler. That whole sh*t is disgusting mayne. But it's ridiculous to say that every major label artist does this.

__________________

[mangwata]

wrote these lyrics


Mad Skillz Ghostwriter * lyrics
* This version has the names censored, no other version exists

"Mad Skillz" "On the real"
"I'll probably make more money off your album than you" (Repeat 3x)

"I'm want to tell you once, and only once"

First of all, I ain't even want to make this ####
There's a lot of rap cats out here faking the ####
I'm a ghostwriter, I'm the cat that you don't see
I write hits for rappers you like and charge 'em a fee
Yo don't get me wrong dog, it's the cheddar that counts
But #### that nigga ______ cause his ####ing check bounced
You thought ______ your single was hot?
I wrote that #### five minutes in a parking lot
I'm the one that your man ______ had to go and get
Cause he smoked too much lye, couldn't write his own ####
Now ______ A&R, he on my answering machine sick
Hollaring in my phone, "Skillz, can you write to this?"
Sure, for stacks, nigga, I make your act bigger
But #### ______ and his whole label cause I ain't never get my plaque, nigga
Jadakiss told y'all cats and that's that
Y'all have a ASCAP or get your ass capped

"Mad Skillz" "Ghost writer, and for the right price
I can even make yo #### tigher" --> Jay Z (Repeat 3x)
"When my pen hits the paper, awwww ####!" --> Kane

Now that fool ______ can't flow, but his crew is sick
Cause he got long dough, so wait til you hear his new ####
I did two songs for ______ til they dough got straight
And even ______ from the West Coast owe me some pape
Remember the little kids, the one that was in ______ group?
I'm the reason you though they lil raps was so cute
I had a hundred songs on the Billboard list
Ask again dog, how I got your deal on my wrist
I did done NBA cats and NFL
But I stopped in '97 cause they #### don't sell
Now ______ paid up cause she was owing me stacks
Who in the hell you think had that chicken flowing like that?
I hate writing for ______ cause he take too long
Crying about the price, I hit him with two ####ing songs!
Ran up in ______'s office and wrecked his staff
Cause it's been two years and dog ain't paid the second half

"Mad Skillz" "Ghost writer, and for the right price
I can even make yo #### tigher" --> Jay Z (Repeat 3x)
"When my pen hits the paper, awwww ####!" --> Kane

So if you just signed, trust me dog, you can't touch it
Don't ask your label for Skillz, cause that ain't in your budget
Y'all cats parlay for chips, I mingle for mills
I turn your whole album into a single deal
I stopped writing for ______ cause that fool don't get it
Looking long sessions and he punching every five minutes
Where my ones, nigga? What the #### I look like?
And his man ______ got mad cause he couldn't get the hook right
I spit ______ and we don't see eye to eye
So I feel like Lee took his Rollie up in BMI
I'm the one that gave ______ his brand new sound
I did his last two albums without even writing 'em down
And for ______ from the South, dog you shook
Stop bouncing on stage nigga like you wrote that hook
You favorite rappers' songs? I put the flames in it
Y'all keep ####ing around, I'm a put this back out with your names in it

"Mad Skillz" "Ghost writer, and for the right price
I can even make yo #### tigher" --> Jay Z (Repeat 3x)
"When my pen hits the paper, awwww ####!" --> Kane



then once performed live the uncensored version {but only the first verse}


First of all, I ain't even want to make this ####
There's a lot of rap cats out here faking the ####
I'm a ghostwriter, I'm the cat that you don't see
I write hits for rappers you like and charge 'em a fee
Yo don't get me wrong dog, it's the cheddar that counts
But #### that nigga Puff Daddy cause his ####ing check bounced
You thought Lil Kim's single was hot?
I wrote that #### five minutes in a parking lot
I'm the one that your man Ma$e had to go and get
Cause he smoked too much lye, couldn't write his own ####
Now Will Smith A&R, he on my answering machine sick
Hollaring in my phone, "Skillz, can you write to this?"
Sure, for stacks, nigga, I make your act bigger

[y5next]

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! You're ruining it for everybody! Hehehehehehehehehe! We kind of like the blind loyalty exhibited here by the wannabe brigade. Just wait until the 'worshippers' see this....There shall be fireworks....


Fi-Fo-Fum!


:-)

[mangwata]

Originally Posted by callmecrazy


now i've always been a dj but i used to work at a major label and i know how all that goes down. everything has to be solicited by someone who has some credibility. a&rs don't just pick up anyone off the street, though they'll make it look like they did. that's why the people who are soliciting artists to labels should have finder's fees, on top of that a KEY MAN CLAUSE is essential if you've been close with the artist, whether you're a manager, publicist, producer or recording artist yourself.

labels love to lead an artist on and at the last minute make a drastic decision. i've seen it at least 40 times first hand. there are too many executives who put in their weight and cast doubt. you have to get yourself close to the key players, though. for instance, every label has highly respected v.p. and he/she really doesn't do ****, because he/she paid their dues in the past (finding the beatles or some****.. i donno). the only purpose this v.p. serves is:
A.) bragging rights for the label
B.) a heavyweight in decision making for new artists and big marketing moves for current roster.

don't let these cats destroy your self esteem though, use it as steam for your drive. keep going, don't give up and be as persistant as possible. you have to be extremely active and just as hungry. wouldn't you love one day to blow up and the shoe to be on the other foot like "yeah, remember when you guys thought i was wack?".

getting on as a producer is easier, but is by no means easy.

everyone got their own way of slipping in the industry and it ain't always conventional. form relationships with cats. be creative and think of ideas that they would be interested in to spark their interest in you.

just as important, get yourself a good industry lawyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Fabolous Sport-
Go Ahead, I Don't Care If You Cats Don't Believe Me, It Is What It Is Whether You Don't Want To Believe Your Favorite Artist Might Be Merely A Puppet Rather Then Being A Dope MC, Maybe A Dope Reciter, It Wasn't Always Like This, Puff Opened The Door, That's All Ima Say. I Was In Denial About 4 Months Ago, Now I'm Just Pissed, Hip Hop And Rap Music Is Just Money Makers And When The Business Behind That Form Of Music Is Exposed, It Won't Become Profitable Anymore And Will Disappear........

Fu-K Tha Industry, It Aint No Conspiracy, It's The Truth......

If You Don't Want To Believe, #### It, But Pay Attention To Commercialized Hip Hop In The Next Few Years And You'll See, Get In The Business And Then Learn The Dark Secret Behind It, Ask Cassidy Who Murda Is, Ask Missy Who Spike And Jamal Are, Ask Jay-Z Who Diamond Is, Ask Static Who Storm Is, Matter Of Fact, Just Ask DMX Why He So Pissed Despite The Fact He Makin' Money..........

http://actionadventure.about.com/cs/...aa032204_3.htm

Think About It, Just Think About It, I Aint Sayin Sh*t Else, I'm Just Uppin, You Wanna Know The Truth, Here It Is, You Wanna Keep Believin' The Fantasy They Put In Front Of You, Go Ahead........


Originally Posted by -Fabolous Sport-
Singers Get Respect By Being Able To Sing.........

This Is Easily Known In The Worlds Of R&B And Country, But Rappers Earn Their Respect By Other Means. Having Dope Lyrics, Having Dope Delivery, Flow, Topics, Concepts, Versatility..........

Now Take Rapper A Who Is Nothing But Rappers B, C And D Combined, You Got Rapper B's Lyrics, Rapper C's Concepts And Rapper D's Flow And Delivery............

But On The Outside, Rapper A Is The One Getting The Respect......

Cats Say "Man, Please, Rapper A Would Murk Rapper E In A Battle."

Rapper A Gets Respect Despite Being Nothing But A Product Of Rappers B, C And D Combined, Think About It.......

Uppin..........

Ima Probable Get Banned And This Topic Might Even Dissappear.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Fabolous Sport-
Watch What Happens When You Get A Deal........

You'll Be The One With The Real Talent Meanwhile You'll Just Be The Product Behind Rapper A Because He's Related To The Owner......

You Aint Gotta Believe Me, I've Seen Ish With My Own Eyes, I've Experienced It, I Knew The Industry Had A Dark Side But This Makes Me Not Care About Music Any More..........

Why Ya'll Think An Artist Can Go Platinum And Only Make Maybe $50,000?? Cuz The People Who "Make Up" That Artist Gotta Get Paid First, Not Only Producers.....

If You Write Your Own Songs And Got Your Own Publshing, You'll Get Paid, But Besides Bogus Contracts, The "Real" Cats Who "Made" The Song Get Paid First......

They're Not Starving Artists, They're Starving Puppets.......

And I Stated That In My First Post, That Their Are Cats That Are Making Their Own Music And Are Legit But I Swear To You 90% Of Are On An Imprint Or Independent, You Aint Gotta Believe Me, Just Know When Reality Does Hit You, You Were Already Warned......

Uppin To The Believers And Non-Believers Alike.......


Originally Posted by High Powered
"Get In The Business And Then Learn The Dark Secret Behind It, Ask Cassidy Who Murda Is, Ask Missy Who Spike And Jamal Are, Ask Jay-Z Who Diamond Is, Ask Static Who Storm Is,

Matter Of Fact, Just Ask DMX Why He So Pissed Despite The Fact He Makin' Money.........."


--See, at this point I'm not reading you. What's that about DMX? You saying he's writing or he's not?

Also, I been hearin about this since Wu forever dropped.

My friend from farrockaway (I dont know how it'z spelled) queens told me a lot of shi*t about rappers and his friend who got in that same situation - but he didn't give as many details so I pushed it aside like he was lying or something.

I was telling him " Man, Wu got the illest lyricists out RIGHT NOW."

He like na they (he meant 'most' industry rappers when he started talking about this tho) aren't. Rappers are full sh*t like everybody else in the industry. And broke it down about an actual TEAM of writers who write for mcs. I heard about ghost writers since MC Lyte and Shante, but didn't think it's really popular for artists.

Yo when I think about it now, I wonder what all them extra dudes in the wu-mansion are doing and how come they aint happy with their situation and left. These extra dudes would get on a track and vanish later on -

ghost writers who left? Or just average cats like dreddy krguer who quit?

I don't think ANY of the main members got 'ghost teams' - but easily odb got some people handling his sh*t. Like how he recently was asking about rae giving him a verse from an interview recently. . . a lot of artists are frontin for this if its true and it makes sense for the industry to do it.

Look, this some serious sh*t for real sohh. Ya'll believe it or not cus there's no physical proof; but I'd be willing to believe it more than anything else I've heard about the industry on here. Why wouldn't the industry strong arm a kid to write lyrics for their groomed 'stars?'


Hey wait I just remebered about the kid from Syracuse who was suing JA Rule for the same thing and now he's gone. No pub and it souinds like your situation



Quote:
Originally Posted by SALAAH REMI
Finally someone spits the hidden truth.....I was in the same situation myself back in '98 runnin' wit' Reggie(redman) and Keith Murray.... as the new cat on Def-Squad..If ya did a lil' research ya'll know who I am.....but anyways the Industry is now being controlled by some white A&R's actin' like they know where hiphop is headed.... Why you think peeps like Skillz and Craig Mack ain't where they used to be? those two have been assigned as designated ghost-writers for your favorite rappers over the past decade. Just like Michael Jackson had songwriters from R-kelly to Babyface...you'll be shocked to find out Jigga doesn't write all his ****.e.g. Ja rule wrote Jigga's verse on "Can I get a **** you". Jungle has co-written songs with his brother(Nas) also. I ghostwrite for artists myself....but as ghostwriters we have a strict code we also follow....If you don't pay me for writing your ****....i have the right to expose you....That's why peeps wuz shocked when Skillz dropped dat ghostwriter track a few years back. For you young cats trying to get in the game so bad, just think of the Industry as WWE....cos that what it really is.




Originally Posted by rbk2003
Y'all ever wonder why there are sometimes 2-3 people getting credit for a song including the aaretist even tho it aint a callabo. Go back and Check nas, jay, budden writing credits again. I am not talking bout calllabos either.



Originally Posted by SALAAH REMI
can't reveal my ID dunny...but I ain't Mally G. Def-Squad has more numbers than the 3 members everybody is familiar with. Def-Jam execs write checks for only Reggie, keith, and Erick....they basically told me they couldn't handle paying the rest of us ****....and that we had to wait our turn or even decide on forming another group. Jamal was lucky he got on the LP cos he also add some legal battles with his other label. I felt kinda like Cappadonna....he wuz wit the WU but Loud records could only account for the original nine.....I ain't regret my situation at all...afteral i was a young buc in high-school trying to make dough without receiving the rite education and understanding the business part of the Industry.



Originally Posted by bladescar
As far as cassidy goes......if he has ANY ghost writer its this guy (cass best friend) called niko.....how do i know?-----------------> i went to clef wit my boys for a demo listining and the dude niko called we was all drinkin and clef was talkin bout how the industry is ****ty and hes only gonna sign us if we come back wit commercial ****. so after he deaded us he was like its all love, so he put on a beat and we had a little cypha goin wit the hypnotic there and blunts and the whole nine. but whateva......anyway the guy niko(pronouced neeko) called and was talkin to clef....clefs like "yo this niko boy this ***** is hotter then cassidy" then he put niko on speaker and was like "niko spit for these cats i got in the studio"(we was in his studio.......platinum studios in NY i forget the address).........Niko whole style ,whole flow, whole delivery, was JUST like cass. this ***** spit for 8 min straight and the **** was fire, better then anything on those best of cass CD's. and he was gonna keep goin. his voice sounded just like cass too. and me and my *****s love cassidy so for us to hear this ***** was unbelievable. clef was like he tryin to get him mainstream, but he aint gone make it cause cass already out and they dont need two cassidy's he said. he was like on the strength that hes clef boy he was sendin him to labels, but most was turnin em down.........but anyway if anyone writin for cass its this ***** niko.....fab u wanna speak on this?


Originally Posted by -Fabolous Sport-
I Wouldn't Put It Past Him...........

Several Artists Got More Than 1 Or 2 Ghostwriters In Pools..........

Jay-Z Wrote Reasonable Doubt And Volume 1 And Even "Some" Of His Songs, But More Than 50% Of Jay's Sh*t Aint From Jay's Mind And That's Not Including The Biggie Lines..........

Nas Isn't As Deep And Smart As Alotta Cats Think He Is........

I Know Ya'll Remember When Nas Used To Say The Dirty South Wasn't Real Hip Hop, Now Look At The Bravehearts Single......It Aint About Nas Sayin' "I Aint Gonna Do The Song", It's About The Label Sayin' "This Is Gonna Be The Single......"

Missy?? Come On......That Ones Easy........

But Like I Said, I Aint Here To Convince No One But The Proof Is In The Interviews, The Shows, The Constant Complaints Of Artists Who Never Get Their Shine............

All I Gotta Say Is Madskillz, Look At Madskillz Career, One Of The Dopest MC's, Signed To A Good Label, But Look At His Career Meanwhile Missy Drops Every Year.......

Take It How You Want It, I'm Lettin' Ya'll Know.......

Uppin.......



Originally Posted by alafino
if u knew the real shyt in the business u would be disgusted.

like your fav. artist going platinum is almost bullshyt. the record companies usually buy the first million for an artist they really like. and the stupid public assumes that big numbers assume a good album and buy the shyt eventually. i know this cuz when Busta Rhymes last good album wit Break Ya Neak dropped, they was giving em out for free at my school--and somebody had to pay for em. and those copies count in soundscan.





Originally Posted by Minus P
Yo Fabulous Sport,

I Was talking to a friend of mine in the industry (reliable source) and I showed him what you wrote and he said..

"hey that **** he said about twista is for real true..i know twista manager and he wrote an article about that ****
and check this out chief...the ghost writer ****...i know for a fact its true with Nelly, Murphy Lee & Chingy.... That BS Chingy is flowing aint him...**** Chingy was straight Gutta back home...He used to open shows for (Withheld by Minus)...His crew without warning used to record in the same studio we did back then
this boy is on to the reals man
IThe dream is alive with IMO...peeps control thier own **** that way"




Originally Posted by PlanD
Very insightful read. A little hard to believe but this would explain alot of sh!t like when new artists get signed you rarely hear any new material from them eg Shells or don't hear from them at all eg Billy Bathgate, Posterboy. They probably locked up in some room writing for more established acts.



Originally Posted by -Fabolous Sport-
Ima Copy All The Posts In This Thread, And Once Again.........

NOTICE HOW THE MODS ARE COMPLETELY IGNORING THIS THREAD DESPITE 5 STARS AND FREQUENT REQUESTS TO KEEP IT UPPED.....

Uppin.......

And Let Me Atleast Clear Up The DMX Thing..........

There Was Alotta Things DMX Had To Do That He Didn't Want To, Like Being Forced To Use A Song From A Pool That A Sling Of A&R's Think Are Hot.....(Not Many Tracks Though), Some Cats Don't Care As Long As The Money And The Fame Is There, But DMX Was One Of The Realest, And Didn't Like That Ish One Bit.......

THINK ABOUT IT, NOTICE HOW SOME MAINSTREAM RAPPERS SOUND GRADUALLY CHANGES EACH ALBUM........

Between Album 1 And Album 4, They Get Less Commercial, Styles Change And Patterns Differ......

Notice How Closely The Black Albums "Sound (Feel)" Is Similar To Reasonable Doubt, Rather Then, Say Volume 2 Or 3...........

I Know You've All Heard About Cats Gettin' More "FREEDOM" On Their Second Album If Their First Album Is Successful, What Do You Think It's Freedom From??

Man, I Seriously Don't Like The Game Any More, Hip Hop Is Becoming Less A Culture And Being Exploited To Make Millions, Plain And Simple......

Uppin......Fu-K The Industry......




Originally Posted by -Fabolous Sport-
Anybody Wanna Know Who Actually Has Ghostwriters, PM Me...........

Right Now, Ima Exposed Who Used To Be My Favorite Rapper, Fagolous. Read Fab's Bio, Notice How His Story Starts Off With Paul Cain Supposedly Being The Big Rapper Around Bed Stuy, Then Fab Spits One Verse And Takes All The Shine. Right.......

Ya'll Wanna Know The Truth?? Paul Cain Is Fab, Paul Cain Is Living His Career Through Fab, Paul Cain Is Fab's Biggest Ghostwriter, And GUNZ Is Fab's Arranger. Paul Cain Couldn't Get A Deal, Then He Spit For DJ Clue, Clue Liked Him, Signed Him To Desert Storm, Shopped Him To Labels, But They Weren't Feelin' Dudes Image At All. Instead, Clue Takes Notice Of Fab's Appearance And Then Hits Paul Cain With The Reality Check......

Now Cain And Fab Agree To Become The Career You've Seen.......

Why Do You Think Paul Cain's Been On Desert Storm So Long And Hasn't Released An Album But Fab Has 2 Albums, 1 Major Release Mixtape And A Third Album Coming Meanwhile Paul Cain Is Still Spitting Meaningless Verses On Mixtapes That He's Only Known For On The Internet And Hip Hop Heads?? How Did Joe Budden Get Released Before Cain??

Look At Alotta Artists Careers, Just Seriously Pay Attention..........

But Like I Said, I'll Tell What I Know, If I Don't Know, I Won't Tell........I Aint Tryin' To Destroy Any Artists, I Just Want Peeps To See That Hip Hop Is On A Long Fall Away From It's Roots, Meaning And Purpose.......

Uppin.........







Originally Posted by -Fabolous Sport-
Ima Say This......

Glitter, Best Of Both Worlds, Dangerously In Love, Unleashed, Mississippi All Show You How Labels Lie About Sales......

Anybody Can Do Math, Look At Unleashed For Example, First Week Was 130k In Sales, Which Sliced In Half The Next Week......Sitting At Possibly 200k At The Most......

Then Sliced Half Again After That Week, Sitting At 230k, Then Maintained That Number The Next Week At 260k, Anyone Who Gets Soundscan Can Verify This......

A Month Is 4 Weeks, He Was Hovering A Little Over 300k (If That), But Look At This Article.....The Same Article All The Press Magazines And Websites Were Getting....

http://www.rapnewsdirect.com/Printe...-257355-00.html

Bow Wow's latest album, Unleashed, has been certified gold by the RIAA as of September 25, 2003, a month after the album's release in late August.

Unleashed debuted at #3 on the Billboard Top 200 best-selling albums chart the week of its release and joins Bow Wow's previous two full-length releases -- 2000's Beware of Dog and 2001's Doggy Bag -- in achieving RIAA gold status.

How Could He Have Gone Gold?? Look At The Numbers, He Didn't Sell Over 100k Each Week......

Meanwhile, Real Soundscans Ring Him At 500,000k After 3 Months Of It's Release Date.....See??

David Banner Was Sitting At 380k In December, A Good 5-7 Months After Being Released, But The Source Magazine And Several Other Press Magazines Tells Of Him Receiving A Gold Plaque.......How??

I Know There Are A Few Inside Cats Besides Me Who Can Verify These Numbers.......

Some Labels Will Lie About Their Bigger Names (Jay-Z) But Let Others (Freeway) Sit On No Plaques Despite Being Close (Freeway Has Sold Over 400k).

And Def Jam's Starting To Lose Sell Credibility, Why Do You think Cats Is Leavin'??

I Know Someone Remembers The Mariah Carey Scandal A Few Years Back That Actually Made Into Public.......

Uppin........Someone Else Needs To Confirm This With Me.....







Originally Posted by Your Drunk Uncle
This sh*t really shouldn't surprise anyone that's been paying attention.

Producers are basically brand names. They make money for having created a "sound". Once they create that sound, they usually recruit a few other producers to help them mass produce it. Timbaland, The Neptunes, etc., all know how to produce, and do make a good amount of tracks, but let's be real.

Take Timbaland for example. He's ill and all, but do you really think he has enough bangers to produce Bubba's whole album, Missy's whole album, plus have tracks appear on almost EVERY MC and singer on a major label's album in a year? Time - wise it's possible, but when you factor in all the promotional time they put in, label meetings, plus the fact that even the nicest go through dry spells and turn out duds, it's just not realistic. They put work into the projects they really care about, and just approve and put minor touches on the ghost producer tracks that are submitted for projects that aren't as important to them.

As for MC's . . . you guys can tell who's really dependent on ghostwriters and who's not. Fabolous, LL, BowWow, Snoop, Chingy, all the female rappers, all the CEO/Producers turned MC (Baby, Mannie Fresh, Puffy, Jermaine Dupri, Timbaland, etc.) You know the deal . . .

With the more credible MC's (Jay, Nas, Jadakiss, etc.), from what I understand, the writers are usually only involved in three circumstances:
1) To help MC's out with problem areas (Jay with song concepts, Nas with party tracks, etc.)
2) To help the MC stay current with what's going on in the street (make sure they're up on the latest slang, trends, etc.)
3) To make tracks that the label wants added to the project for whatever reason ("Joe, we'd like you to make another song or two with an R&B feel to it. We want you to meet with MC X and MC Z on Friday.")

People have been hinting about this for about 6 or 7 years people. It's always been in the music biz, but ever since the mid-90's, it's been driving HipHop, no question.

[mangwata]

Originally Posted by Simonsez


The industry has been shady for a long time,this is not news. But don't be quick to believe everything u read. Labels always pitch ideas to artists about what type of song they should do or how it should sound by getting those ideas from other people. They rip off people that are trying to get put on by taking their concepts,flows,etc all the time. I remember one time I was with dame dash and he was asking me and some other cat what's hot on the street. Cuz this n1gga dame didn't know,cuz he's out of touch with what's going on in the hood or whatever. So when dame finds out what was hot,then you'll see it in the next video or heard it in the next song. I use to work for a major record company and it's amazing what these cats get away with. Honestly I think something is going to happen soon. I had access to soundscan and all that shyt and I use to look at that shyt every day. And some artist would only ship gold or be projected to sell gold or platnium eventually.And everybody would believe they sold that much. I know this cat that works in retail and they would tell him what numbers they wanted him to put,and just give him free shyt. The music industry is a circus-meaning it's filled with nothing but clowns.








Originally Posted by Snake Eyz
Canibus never had a ghostwriter & LL did get help on writing Return Of Jack The Ripper because he was their franchise player & they could not risk him losing to a rookie so they paid stations off to pull Second Round KO off their rotations & blackballed Bis from mainstream rap. The industry is very shady. Yep. Every DMX album went platinum but he never received his deserved share of the profits. That's why he's retired after Grand Champ. People are only out for the money & will do anything to get it.



Originally Posted by Venom XP
Great thread man, good read from start to finish, even the replies have been good for once. My only comment is this:

The industry is shady, most artists are bullshiit, so are most producers....fine. But the bigger picture isn't the "Rap Industry/Hip-Hop Industry", its the ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY. And at the end of the day, every genre of music's goal is to make music that will entertain people to the point where they pay to hear it or own it, and thusly make the Industry cats get rich.

As Joe Budden said, "If everyone's a rapper where all the fans at?"

That's the point I'm trying to make. If you're a hip-hop fan, find the people you like that make the music you like, and enjoy it. Even if someone else really wrote it or produced it or whatever, who cares. Are you really enjoying "THE PERSON", or THE MUSIC? I know that I just listen for songs I like, and Rappers/Producers who have a tendency to put out songs I like. Right now, Shady/Aftermath and the Roc put out the most number of songs I can just sit back and enjoy, so I check for them. I wouldn't be hurt in the least if 50 had a press conference tomorrow and admitted that he was never shot, was really born and raised in India, and that 6 arabs write his rhymes.....cause the songs still entertain me!!!

Thanks for the info though Fab, great post...







Originally Posted by n_e_w_jerz
I can confirm what Fabolous Sport is saying about the Industry and the writing pools because I work for the major that used to distribute bad boy and that sh|t was really going down. Ask Bathgate.

As for the other artists he mentions using writing pools, I cant confirm if any of them did or didn't, but I wouldnt be suprised.

As for the Platinum and Gold plaques, the sh|t is a bunch of bs. They give them out for units shipped not for units actually sold in the retail stores. And it is common knowledge in the industry that 3rd quarter and 4th quarter shipments are always overstated or shipped in excess just to make the label look good at year end. Then in the 2nd quarter all the returns from the overstated 3rd & 4th quarter sales come back. I know this cuz I used to work in royalties. They make it appear that the artist is selling crazy off the jump just so that other people could think the product is worth the purchase.


"Does Anybody Know How I Can Multiple PM People?? It's A Lotta Cats Wantin' To Know.......

And The Jay-Z Thing, I Don't Blame Ya'll For Being Skeptic......

A Hustler Usually Does Anything For Money Even If It Means Hurting Others (Crack Dealers). How Many Times Has Jay-Z Said "I Aint No Rapper, Man, I'm Just A Hustler."??? (Backstage??) When Ya'll Gonna Start Believin' Him?? I Got Evidence But It Aint Sh*t I Can Do With The Net, But Those Are Jigga's Own Words.........

Cats Who Work For Labels Already Know The Deal With Rap........

Uppin........"


ayo, i'm definitely skeptical about some of this...somebody mentioned before, jay had to start his own label before he could get any shine, so y would he start using ghostwriters after receiving praise for his own work...also, remember that eminem started out in the underground, dr.dre "discovered" him at a freestylin contest...missy? if she uses ghostwriters y is she so wack, i don't think anyone considers her a lyrical beast...but with all that said, jungle and whiz had an intervew on AHH saying that they helped nas wit alot of songs, including "one mic", but then again, why was their own album so wack?...i really don't know what to think about this "revelation