[ATLian]

Originally Posted by KEMINOKANA

We all know that a person was created to have straight teeth. Having non-straight teeth is an abnormality and one can choose to straighten them or leave them crooked. We all know that people were created with eyes to see. Being blind is an abnormality and etc.

My point was the Christian argues that god created everything, and he created everything perfect. So why do the Christians want to go and change what god created (buck-teeth). If they do change the imperfect buck-teeth that god created so they can now be perfect, then they are saying that god does create some imperfect things, and also it's OK to change god's creation to suit what man calls perfect. Basically, it all negates the notion that god couldn't have create gays (people who are "imperfect" sexually) coz he only creates straights (people who are "perfect" sexually).

Also, like I said earlier on:

It's also interesting how there are those saying god could not have created gays. So it doesn't surprise these same people that god created Satan, the Ebola virus, the malaria parasite, cancer-causing conditions, genetic defects that leave somebody f.ucked for life, etc. But it totally surprises them that he could have made someone who has a preference for the same sex. WTF?

Kemi and like-minded Christians - why are you so shocked that god could create gays, and you'll defend him to the bitter end saying he could never have created gays - while you have no issue with the fact that he created viruses whose only purpose in life is to kill human beings?

[ATLian]

So if u are male and are gay you were either fuc.k.ked in the ass when young, or you've made a conscious decision to be fu.k.ked in the ass.

Homosexuality is a choice.

Crazy Boo,

your statements above would be dismissed as complete rubbish if they said "So if u are female and are straight you were either fuc.k.ked in the p.ussy when young, or you've made a conscious decision to be fu.k.ked in the p.ussy" or "Heterosexuality is a choice". You can't have it just one way (straightness is natural but gayness is a choice), it has to be the same for both sides.

Also, do you recall the first day you realized that you wanted to have sex or be intimate with somebody else, and you sat down and listed all the pros and cons of being straight or lesbian, then after serious soul searching and research you chose the straight path? Of course that day never happened. From the first day you felt sexual attraction, it was towards men. So why do you think that gays had that mythical day in their lives, and after soul searching, they chose to get down with similar sex people? Why can't you see that like you, they were born with the preference they currently have?

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by Type R

Therefore homophobics also have the same right to feelings of revulsion and hatred, and no one can say "shame on Mashadites."

Nobody argues that a homophobe has the right to say "I hate faggots". Just like some redneck jungu has the right to say "I hate all niggers and they should all work as slaves for the white man".

But in a civilized society, you will definitely be called out for making such statements. So as you make them, prepare yourself for the repurcussions.

[ATLian]

Originally Posted by Wamax74.

The bible is very clear: God hates homosexuals.

So are you for stoning to death all homosexuals, like he says?

Also, god doesn't just hate the sin of homosexuality, he hates all sins. Plus in his eyes, all sins are equal - meaning lust and murder and homosexuality are the same to him, and they will result in a similar punishment.

That said, do you know that according to god it's a sin to wear clothing that is made of mixed materials, like a 50% wool and 50% linen jacket? Do you know that in god's system of judgement, the punishment for Guy 1 who wears a mixed-material jacket and Guy 2 who indulges in homosexual sex is the same - eternal death in hell?

I'm sure as you read this, it's dawning upon you that you're currently wearing a smorgasbord of materials - linen, cotton, leather, wool, maybe some loose plastic, etc - meaning that currently god hates you as much as he hates that gay couple that are currently doing their thing.

That's the issue with bringing up god to justify the sin of homosexuality. It's hard to use this justification since you are currently sinning by doing any of the hundreds of things that god declared to be sins. Therefore you are being a hypocrite since you're OK with the sins you're committing, but are very repulsed by the sins of others, especially homosexuality!

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by reggie_woic

there's a reason we still don't stone adulterers despite what The Book says...[/color]

Fafanua, tafazali . What is the reason?

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by ndigila

In religions, homosexuality is viewed as an act, while in today's society it is viewed as a state of existence (a sexuality). So I think from a religious perspective, homosexual attractions are temptations to sin, while homosexual sex is the sin itself.

I see.
I think that the reason that there's so much open hostility towards homosexuality is because there something called 'sexual identity' and 'identity politics' today. It really screams for attention. So people feel they have to react by being self-righteous.

Before, when people were forced to practice undercover, and there was no such thing as 'sexual identity', the righteous ones used to turn a blind eye. They knew that certain people were gay, but they were okay to let things be.

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by ATLian

No, I'm as straight as you can be. I'm just open minded and not bigoted. BTW it's interesting that if I was defending children, nobody would ask me if I was a child. If I was defending women, nobody would ask me if I'm a woman. But when I defend gays, everyone wonders if I'm gay.

Originally Posted by ATLian

I also would not want my kids to be gay. Like Lesbiana alluded to when she talked about gayness not being a choice, who would want that stigma and the issues that come around with it to follow ones kids around forever?

I think that's most people's greatest fear, that someone close will turn out to be gay, and they'll have to deal with the stigma. And for the homophobe it's that he or she will be outed, and then will face stigma, hate and rejection. It's a legitimate fear. I saw what my HIV positive famo members endured because of stigma. I wouldn't want to wish stigma of any type on anyone. Stigma kills, hate kills. When people are so caught up in the hate hawajui, lakini when you're the one being hated or it's a fam member, then it opens your eyes.

And please don't nobody tell me that being gay is not the same as being HIV positive. I didn't say they were the same.

Originally Posted by Type R

Much as one has no choice over one's sexual orientation, people also do not have a choice over how they react to the sexual orientation/activities of others. Therefore homophobics also have the same right to feelings of revulsion and hatred, and no one can say "shame on Mashadites."

People have a right to that knee-jerk hate reaction. Ni hiari yao. But it gets tiresome. Hate = Fear. Can't go around hating and fearing someone for being who they are. It's such a waste of emotion and energy; and it doesn't make nobody's life better. Hating someone who's gay won't eliminate the gayness.

Originally Posted by ATLian

Nobody argues that a homophobe has the right to say "I hate faggots". Just like some redneck jungu has the right to say "I hate all niggers and they should all work as slaves for the white man". But in a civilized society, you will definitely be called out for making such statements. So as you make them, prepare yourself for the repurcussions.

I agree.

[ciceraw]

Originally Posted by msema ukweli Kabisa

sadly homophobia and also the hate is not limited to Kenya only. Its worldwide

did you ditch the politics section? long time!

[Nerimae]

ATLian the reason I asked you if you were gay or not is coz most African men are homophobic to the core. Anyways honestly you guys are being unfair coz you are assuming that all gay people were born that way. I dont think so, there are some who are most def born gay but there are also some who become gay, I know one who has a son but after his first gay encounter, he now likes only men and hates women with a passion...LOL. Some become gay coz its the in thing. This is what I meant by I dont want my kids to be gay. IN 05 when we were bombarded by gay tv, Queer eye for the straight guy and shows like that, alot of kids became gay coz they thought it was a fad and if you want to be cool, you needed to be gay.
Anyways gay people should be allowed to do whatever they want but they shouldnt rub their sexuality on our faces. Its like unless you intend on having sex on the sidewalk, I dont see why you should announce to the whole world that you're gay and snap fingers at us and all that. Why cant the flames just act normal? I dont need my 2 year old nephew to see that and become confused

[al-zalzalah]

Originally Posted by Nerimae

Anyways gay people should be allowed to do whatever they want but they shouldnt rub their sexuality on our faces. Its like unless you intend on having sex on the sidewalk, I dont see why you should announce to the whole world that you're gay and snap fingers at us and all that. Why cant the flames just act normal? I dont need my 2 year old nephew to see that and become confused

sema, nerimae. umelosti. or maybe it's me who's scarce.
your response wasn't directed at me, but i get your perspective. i'm your average conservative kenyan who doesn't like other people's sex lives being thrown into my face.

but thinking about it, straight people are always throwing their sexuality in everybody's faces. we just don't notice it because it's our norm. but for somebody gay, it's very obvious, and prolly irritating (it's also irritating to someone who's straight, single and lonely, hehheh). that to me explains why some gay people insist on celebrating their sexuality publicly. lakini let me also say that hiyo flamboyance, sijui gay pride, is an extreme stereotype thing. it's not like all gays are militantly gay and go on parades uchi once a year. they're not all trying to make a political point. and not all gays lisp and act effeminate.

i know a few gay couples. very conservative, don't draw attention to themselves, don't live wild. just couples that want to spend their lives together, and do the kawaida thing, ie buying a home together, taking trips together, visiting each other's families. their lives would put some of these straight mashada maniacs to shame because they've got their stuff together, they're settled, they're not promiscuous and they're stable.