[Sanaa-]

Originally Posted by Kamila

So is the taxation high or low???

Tsk!! Can you phrase your question in an intelligent manner. You can't just ask high or low?! high or low compared to what? What tax specifically are you talking about. You have to have valid and relevant reference point when you are asking such a question because def. high or low is subjective.

What are the other sources of education funding?

Private funding. Majority of the funding is from public resources, but that really does not affect the quality of my life. Infact its of little consequence to any student.

I believe nothing good comes easy you know?

Did you just discover that?

[Kamila]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

Tsk!! Can you phrase your question in an intelligent manner. You can't just ask high or low?! high or low compared to what? What tax specifically are you talking about. You have to have valid and relevant reference point when you are asking such a question because def. high or low is subjective.

Sanaa using technical terms does not equal intelligence CB was comparing US and the nordic countries so ofcourse high or low compared to US (not really rocket science ama?). Is somebody having a slow morning or what. And why you getting worked up??? Really never mind I'll google

Private funding. Majority of the funding is from public resources, but that really does not affect the quality of my life. Infact its of little consequence to any student.

Thank you this is all I needed to know geez not a personal lecture!


Did you just discover that?

Maybe maybe not got a problem???

[Sanaa-]

Originally Posted by Kamila

Maybe maybe not got a problem???

[Sanaa-]

Kamilla I think you are the one misunderstanding me, where did personal come in in all of this? This is just a discussion, and I have to comment if I feel something was not accurately mentioned, its nothing to do with technical terms or getting personal unless you had another agenda. If you prefer to google... go ahead I wasn't lecturing you, someone else might find my information useful, you don't have to make sense of it.

---

What I meant is that you can't intepret tax in such a literal way. Saying that tax is high or low is ambiguous which beats the purpose of discussing the quality of life in the different countries we live in which was the point of discussion in the first place and thats why I asked you to rephrase . Its like telling the doc. unaumwa but husemi unaumwa wapi.

In the US you have to pay separate Health Insurance and Pension Schemes. For us our income tax includes all of that, pension and health insurance amongst other things, so I don't have to worry about any pension scheme or whatever. E.g If I earn 1400 € my income tax is about 11% of that. If you deduct 11% from my income, that has little effect on my life style. If I fall sick, I'll pay 11 euros only, if I'm pregnant, I'll give birth for free, If I spend the night at the hospital I pay an extra 11€.

Thats why i said that saying we are extremely taxed to a point that we are not left with any money to shop etc (CB's reply) is not reflective of our economic well being here, the difference between our country and the US is that you guys pay from your pocket rather your insurance and we pay from our income tax because our income tax consolidates all of that.

I love this country and its Economic plans and that welfare system, if it were not for the lousy social life and culture, I'd def. live here for as long as possible.

[mfanikiwa]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

Compulsory free education on every level ( kindergaten till Masters) is everyones right (that includes international students) Completely free. No tuition fees, no hidden administrative cost, no buying books. Everything is provided by the universities. They can afford to because the Universities are state funded, also the Nordic countries are financially able to support that kind of a system, it also introduces a competitive edge against other Euroepean countries, meaning more people (future work force) will want to move here instead of other European countries. Ironically..thats not always the case. Nordic countries are desparate for a bigger and well equipped younger work force, because there will come a time when there will be a deficit in the work force due to too many old & retired people.

The popultion is only just around 5.25 million so it is not difficult to support this kind of a system.



It doesn't matter if you are a janitor or a newspaper delivery boy, any job profesional or casual where you have a year long contract is ok.



In your first year if you apply for a permit/Visa on the grounds of your job, you get a working visa and the second time you get a 3 year working visa, but inbetween i.e after two years of continious living or working here as a non-student you have a right to apply for permenent residency.

The thing is, on a normal student Visa, you have the same benefits as a permenent resident, BUT you are not entitled to your rent and living expenses being paid. Because Students (perment residents & Citizens) recieve money for their rent and bills, also they get student loans (on the condition that they get a measly number of credits in school) which they pay back after graduation upon finding a professional job.




The least paid would be perhaps a Janitor (although we don't call them janitor here and the pay is from 12$ - 14 $ per hour (not including your "holiday money" ) Working in a supermarket the wages are higher 14$ - 16$ because it means you can be both a shelf packing person or a cashier and such jobs they consider them as Customer Service jobs.


The not so nice thing about the place is that a nurse will earn around 23$ - 25$ an hour. As in the wages between different kind of qualified and non qualified jobs are not so different. Mostly people here don't equate money to happiness and are not so ambitious so you won't hear anyone complaining about the wages (besides an African .

which nordic country is that?
Never heard of a scandinavian country that offers such a deal.
maybe you are leaving in north pole where the nowegians want to resettle human beings.

[jungunijinga]

Originally Posted by rayfisher

Most fresh college and university graduates in kenya have the following notion about life abroad;

1.High standard of education. Anyone considering Ukraine? Please change your mind. Really. (If only I knew about Scandinavian countries earlier) The quality of education you get here is really questionable. You'll either have to study in Russian/Ukrainian, a language you really can't master in a year or two; or in English, being taught by teachers who barely speak english. They let you pass without you lifting a nail. In my opinion the only adavntage is that we get to specialize in fields that are to expensive elsewhere in the world, including Kenya (parallel): so many specialized engineering courses, med, dentistry, piloting etc.

2.Easy to get jobs that will help you pay fees on your own. Unless you're really lucky. Generally Africans here can't get jobs. One has to really be a hustler, a pusher and/or creative to get something to do, and when you do, the pay won't be good enough for you to support yourself. Tuition is about 4000$ a year, and you have to get support from home

3.Takes shorter period to complete degree/master programs. 4 for bachelors, 5.5 for masters. For engineering courses that is.Med n dentistry shd be 6

4.When you finally get a job after completing your program the salary will be hefty. I've met a couple of KEnyans who graduated from here. They;re doing prety well. There are a number of lecturers in Kenyan universities. No one ever stays here after graduating. Of course some West africans are normally too proud to go back home na wanabaki hapa wakihustle. Some things are hard to understand

5.It is easy to meet a citizen and marry to get makaratasi.Again I repeat, this isn't a place for a black person to stay. It's really easy to get hooked up with someone for papers here if one wanted to. Tons of West Africans do this. Am yet to meet a Kenyan ama Ug or Tz-ian

6.It is easy to get well doing kenyans and marry them.
Refer to No. 5!!

Now please help our young minds in kenya who read this to realise and understand the reality of life abroad,if any of the above is true where you are.

It's just not a place to come to. you need a really thick skin to survive here. Majority quit after the first year, which on most occasions is a year of language study.
Racism is rampant, with several extremist groups promoting nationalism stating that all foreigners are unwelcome. A couple of blacks have been killed, and attacks on black and asian men are not uncommon.
If coming here ever crossed your mind, please think twice (hata 19 times!) Do spare some time and read:

New racist attacks in Ukraine - Nigerian knifed, Chinese beaten : International Voices

[crazy boo]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

LOl what do you mean?



Thats a grossly inadequate representation of taxation effects on residents (here) in general . Rather thats a poor illustration of the schema of how things work here. This country's economic policies are not that simplistic taxation is just one of the many sources of education funding here.

I discovered that the average Kenyan here can't even intepret what their tax form really means, but they all agree and complain about is the tax being high, but don't really know the actual impact of those figures.

Whether education is funded from donors or from taxation of alcohol at the end of the day nordic education is free but not necessarily free. Every consumer in that country pays for that indirectly. The end does not justify the means. Sanaa the fact that they have free education does not mean its necessarily ok to charge the high taxes. Btw high taxes is obvious,its a fact. My aunt lived in sweden for 7 years and my argument was based on sweden which tends to have same taxation mannerisms with the other nordic countries.

Fact -cup of coffee is 3 times what we pay in US, reason-cost of production and sales taxes passed onto to you the consumer make you pay for the "otherwise" funded education.

I repeat -nordic countries are good for free education but as a person who is the labor market its time to move on...

Its obvious that some places charge higher taxes but they have more "social" goods. Like the UK has a higher taxation process than US but they have the benefit of at least the general free healthcare not unless you opt private. I bet you nordic countries have more social goods. This is not fair in the end since if say I am in my 50's, why do I have to pay for education for a 19 year old who aint my kid? If I'm the 19yr old, I'll gladly take the offer but as soon as get my degree then to be smart enough, I would concentrate on where I get more from my money not something that I don't need/use(read education).

But anyway this was for aspiring students I guess- For free education, head to Finland et al, for a life of the money you make-head west. all you need is a lil flexibility to live in different nations.

[Sanaa-]

CB,

Since you are comparing the price of a cup of coffee in the states and in Nordic countries ... can we also compare the price of a cup of tea in Kenya and in Sweden? Is it okie to say since tea costs 2.0 cents in kenya and in Sweden it costs 200 Ksh ati watu warudi nyumbani ama wahame?

One thing you should remember is that the wages or earnings here support that standard of lifestyle and the upkeep. (Visit my closet for a full illustration) (or visit a club on sato and you will find that a good share of the clients are Kenyans.. wanatoa wapi pesa za kula and still have enough left over to club?) If you work you are able to eat and live tosha. If you don't work then you need a miracle.

I get your argument (coffee cup being expensive etc) but personally I don't complain about the prices or taxes and the majority of Finns I know are comfortable/happy with the arrangement. I don't know how to explain this in simple terms but WE are comfortable paying between 1.00 - 2 .00 euro for a cup of coffee... The point here is that we have adjusted to living here courtesy of the wages.


I would rather pay those high taxes on everyday items, which my income can take care of than pay tuition over 20,000 Euros from my pocket in a year like other countries. Fine we pay higher taxes than other countries, but our standards of living are higher and better than other countries so at the end of the day I am more than happy to pay the taxes because live from them. If you have an income which can take care of your rent, food, shopping... thats enough, you study and after graduation you can head elsewhere. Well being a student myself, I'd say this country to me is the best option for now. Next year I will look for a new home country depending on other factors such as competitiveness in careers and salaries, security in a country.

Speaking of comparisons... Have you ever seen the state of housing for some students/non students in London? Utalia machozi. For some heating in winter is a luxury, The one thing I love about Nordic countries is the excellent housing, haijalishi your income, there is a standard and nothing below it is acceptable. Esp as a student you are shielded from so many horrible things...(this came from an Americans mouth). Tell me where do you go to school for "free" books are free , pay a flat rent for 200 euros, including furniture, electricity and free internet? In my Uni, students are given PC's for free if you don't have one. In my friends Practical nursing school, tuition food and rent is free. Apartments are built 5-10 minutes walk from each Uni (In my city) so no fuel or bus expenses

With all that in mind Why should I give a damn if a cup of coffee is more expensive here than in America? BTW if you think food and drinks in sweden is expensive.. visit Norway

As a Kenyan I have to learn to squeeze the benefits and "go around the hard things" na umalize masomo, then you can afford your self the opportunity to seek greener pastures.

By the way I think that Kenyans should not forget to adjust their minds as well as their physical selves when they move to foreign countries. Unapata mtu anaenda supermarket ama duka la nguo ashaanza ku convert between Ksh and Euros.. yet they have been living here for 2 + years and stopped recieving money from parents.

[bible_reader]

UK universities are superior in terms of student food than the US ones.But be aware that life as a student in the UK is harder than in the US.

[Sanaa-]

Originally Posted by jungunijinga

It's just not a place to come to. you need a really thick skin to survive here. Majority quit after the first year, which on most occasions is a year of language study.
Racism is rampant, with several extremist groups promoting nationalism stating that all foreigners are unwelcome. A couple of blacks have been killed, and attacks on black and asian men are not uncommon.
If coming here ever crossed your mind, please think twice (hata 19 times!) Do spare some time and read:

New racist attacks in Ukraine - Nigerian knifed, Chinese beaten : International Voices

Oh my These Euro trash/Euro swines are another species. I'm very scared of Eastern Europeans.. those people can be heartless. How do you endure living there? Europeans are very unwelcoming some European countries are openly aggressive and some are passive hostile and xenophobic. Like here they will gladly offer foreigners the lowest tier jobs and thats only because the demand for labourers is higher than the locals who would want to do such jobs.