[stunner]

Originally Posted by Kabunja wa Gathuita

I see most of the threads here are on the west - anyone in the east? I am not a student but have been in close touch with some

5.It is easy to meet a citizen and marry to get makaratasi.[/color]
You marry and take them to Kenya!
.

what are you referring to as 'East'? China..India..Australia where exactly? and which country in particular are your scenarios applying to?

and why are people marrying for makaratasi then going back jamhuri? defeats the purpose ama?

[Sanaa-]

Originally Posted by stunner

Hmmmm Very interesting.Questions:

So is education free even for International students? i dont understand how this works. i mean dont you pay anything for admission,classes nothing just jet in the country and appear your diabs in class?? elaborate kidogo.

Compulsory free education on every level ( kindergaten till Masters) is everyones right (that includes international students) Completely free. No tuition fees, no hidden administrative cost, no buying books. Everything is provided by the universities. They can afford to because the Universities are state funded, also the Nordic countries are financially able to support that kind of a system, it also introduces a competitive edge against other Euroepean countries, meaning more people (future work force) will want to move here instead of other European countries. Ironically..thats not always the case. Nordic countries are desparate for a bigger and well equipped younger work force, because there will come a time when there will be a deficit in the work force due to too many old & retired people.

The popultion is only just around 5.25 million so it is not difficult to support this kind of a system.

Second, 900 euros(abt $1400) you get makaratasi? Is this regardless of what job you are doing? Or does it have to be a professional job?

It doesn't matter if you are a janitor or a newspaper delivery boy, any job profesional or casual where you have a year long contract is ok.

third.By makaratasi you mean a working visa or citizenship?

In your first year if you apply for a permit/Visa on the grounds of your job, you get a working visa and the second time you get a 3 year working visa, but inbetween i.e after two years of continious living or working here as a non-student you have a right to apply for permenent residency.

The thing is, on a normal student Visa, you have the same benefits as a permenent resident, BUT you are not entitled to your rent and living expenses being paid. Because Students (perment residents & Citizens) recieve money for their rent and bills, also they get student loans (on the condition that they get a measly number of credits in school) which they pay back after graduation upon finding a professional job.

here a jamaa working in wal-mart (supermarket) earns $7-8/hr. Scandinavia je?

The least paid would be perhaps a Janitor (although we don't call them janitor here and the pay is from 12$ - 14 $ per hour (not including your "holiday money" ) Working in a supermarket the wages are higher 14$ - 16$ because it means you can be both a shelf packing person or a cashier and such jobs they consider them as Customer Service jobs.


The not so nice thing about the place is that a nurse will earn around 23$ - 25$ an hour. As in the wages between different kind of qualified and non qualified jobs are not so different. Mostly people here don't equate money to happiness and are not so ambitious so you won't hear anyone complaining about the wages (besides an African .

[Kabunja wa Gathuita]

Originally Posted by stunner

what are you referring to as 'East'? China..India..Australia where exactly? and which country in particular are your scenarios applying to?

and why are people marrying for makaratasi then going back jamhuri? defeats the purpose ama?

. That's the point. The advice is some parts of the east are not like what it is in the US.
India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka et al.

[Lobix]

I didnt know scandinavia/nordic region got free education. Just realised the other day when i came to sweden only that u have to pay accomodation and other personal expenses, Else, tuition is free.
Its hard to get jobos here and their rules are different from the UK, US ones. Most jobos here require one to know their language, so it takes time to get real work.

[Type R]

Originally Posted by stunner

... Many times i've also seen people with fc.uked up gpa's with good jobs.there is one who supervises me everyday...

Reminds me of a fellow who sat thru four years of campus, bored, uninspired. Horrible grades. Other students kept asking, "Why doesn't he change his major? He's obviously not made for this."

6 months before graduation, the dude got an instant job with a top 10 Fortune 500 company. The silly rest of us were mailing 100s of "resumes" all over the place, attending interviews, etc. His uncle was a big shot and in high school had promised him, "if you get a degree in this, I will fix for you a dream job." Campus was merely a formality to him.

[bible_reader]

The wide distribution of kenyans in many developed countries is a good thing for the future.WHat we need is a good governance system back in kenya that will promote a good environment for doing business,then you will see these kenyans abroad investing back home.

[crazy boo]

I think the notion of free education can be an attracting factor to any would be student. One of my pals was telling me how Finland is mzuri cuz the sis is there and the education is free. Technically not really. You only benefit if you are a student in Finland/Sweden/Denmark. So as you leave the education cadre and get into the labor force then you're not benefitting much especially if you're young and bila many "social needs" like healthcare.

In the USA the max tax rate you pay is 35% and sales tax max 10% in some states. However nordic countries have the highest tax rates in the world.Like sweden has a tax max rate of 59% and an additional 25% on sales tax. That is ridiculous. Denmark the same high tax rates. Basically, high tax rates help this nations to have the so called free education/healthcare and leave you with little money in your hands to shop/enjoy. But even comparing the US education to the nordic education, the US education is largely subsidized not unless you go to a private school or are paying international student rates.



Every place has its advantages and disadvantages.

[Sankara]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

1.High standard of education.
In my opinion, it is the best Free Education, especially the facilities & resources if you are doing Sciences/Engineering.

2.Easy to get jobs that will help you pay fees on your own.

Education is free, So I don't know about other countries. However, you have to pay for your living (rent,bills etc) and that is managaeble if you are good at managing your finances, and if you are not a mchagua jembe.

3.Takes shorter period to complete degree/master programs.

Depends on your dilligence. With free education, one might think that you'll even graduate earlier than expected, but its very ironic, that even after going to school for free, people will always have some other excuse or reason not to wake up in the morning and go to school. I have always sort of believed that if one pays for their education then you don't mess around at all.

4.When you finally get a job after completing your program the salary will be hefty.


Most def.

Hefty is relative, depending on the country (we have very high taxation) also it depends on your standard of living. If you live on a beach front condo, then most def. a hefty salary will turn into a very ordinary salary.

All industrialised , developed countries pay reasonably well if you have educational qualifications, its not the salary that should be the issue but what you do with it.


5.It is easy to meet a citizen and marry to get makaratasi.

Yes very easy . But story za kuoana for papers are old tactics and for losers. The law here states that if you earn at least 900 euros a month, you get your makaratasi. So why the hell should anyone suck old grey balls for 4 years to get makaratasis?

6.It is easy to get well doing kenyans and marry them.

Every man for his own. Very rare to see Kenyans giving each other makaratasi, let alone fall in love for marriage.



My advice to anyone who wants to live abroad is:

Don't work on a strict time line, be reasonable and keep an open mind. E.g if you are say, 26 years old and want a decent life and an education, go for an associates degree for example in practical nursing, takes a very short time, earn the money to support your expenses while studying for whatever it is you want.

OR..

If you feel pressed for time, apply for your choice of degree, and get any job at all e.g in restaurants/hotels and life goes on.


Be realistic and smart. Find a country with affordable quality education and after you graduate you can move to an Ideal location where there are alot of jobs, good salaries, good quality of life and reasonable taxation for example Ireland. I know that in many countries, you can only have one or the other i.e a good and expensive education but little or no time to work (maybe even permission to work) So you have to be wise and chose which should be a priority so as to break even (education/finances).

With an education and a valid passport while outside of Kenya, you can consolidate your efforts in whatever country you like.

DAYUUM!! WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU AT??.....im guessin germany what with euros and free education

here in UK, life is crazy!! if u don't have people backing u from home and ur a student, u really can't make it. i have a cousin who i was tellin she's better off goin to the states and she was still insisting on coming here.

as for 'papers', the govt here don't play. of course the easiest way is to actually first get a work permit. however, chances are u have to be in a course that's highly qualified and in demand (medicine,dentistry engineering, banking and finance etc) and u have to have gotten a minimum of 2:1 in ur degree for employers to even give u second look.

as for that marriage thing, its getting harder by the day. they're crackin down on all these guys who are marrying foreign nationals. Pakistanis and Naijas especially have perfected the art of beating the home office but still its crazy. They have all these weird and wonderful ways to see if u actually are in it for the love e.g. they go over ur bank statements (in ur presence), interview ur landlord, pop every once in a while for tea (of course to see if wifey/ huzzy is there)....

[Sanaa-]

Originally Posted by crazy boo

In the USA the max tax rate you pay is 35% and sales tax max 10% in some states. However nordic countries have the highest tax rates in the world.Like sweden has a tax max rate of 59% and an additional 25% on sales tax. That is ridiculous. Denmark the same high tax rates. Basically, high tax rates help this nations to have the so called free education/healthcare and leave you with little money in your hands to shop/enjoy.

LOl what do you mean?



Thats a grossly inadequate representation of taxation effects on residents (here) in general . Rather thats a poor illustration of the schema of how things work here. This country's economic policies are not that simplistic taxation is just one of the many sources of education funding here.

I discovered that the average Kenyan here can't even intepret what their tax form really means, but they all agree and complain about is the tax being high, but don't really know the actual impact of those figures.

[Kamila]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

LOl what do you mean?



Thats a grossly inadequate representation of taxation effects on residents (here) in general . Rather thats a poor illustration of the schema of how things work here. This country's economic policies are not that simplistic taxation is just one of the many sources of education funding here.

I discovered that the average Kenyan here can't even intepret what their tax form really means, but they all agree and complain about is the tax being high, but don't really know the actual impact of those figures.

So is the taxation high or low???

What are the other sources of education funding? I believe nothing good comes easy you know?