Parallels: Kikuyu Luophobia vis-a-vis USA Negrophobia

[Patriotic kenyan]

These thread has made me thinking;

Why is it that some, not all, Kikuyus are always blaming Raila for post election violence?

Why is it that some, not all, Kikuyus are blaming Raila for mungiki killings?

Why is there so much fear among the Kikuyus of Raila presidency?

I wish I could get an honest answer from a Kikuyu.

[Titty Boy]

This is an incredible, thought-provoking thread. Kudos Type R and all you contibutors.

It is hard to decipher why some kikuyus have a deep seated fear/(hate?) for the luos. I belong to neither of the tribes and as a younging I was never poisoned with the propaganda that "Kikuyus this" or "Luos that". But some of my kyuk friends would despise Luos and when asked why, they couldn't come up with a reason or if they did come up with one it would be a flimsy one(like "kihii").

It is especially disheartening when you see young generations carry on with this backward thinking. As Kenyans, we have a long way to go, especially after the country was split along tribal lines in Dec 2007.

[Econ Major]

Originally Posted by Type R

By saying "Mjaruos are crazy," Museveni was playing into a psychological aspect that he is aware exists in Kenya: the morbid fear and terror of the Luo.

For non-Kyuks, Luo-phobia is the most difficult-to-understand aspect of Kikuyu the mentality. To me, it is completely non-sensical. It is beyond belief, completely irrational and even a form of collective mental illness (schizophrenic paranoia).

Luos leaders have made historical sacrifices for Kikuyu leaders, notably Tom Mboya and Oginga Odinga for Kenyatta, and Raila for the paraplegic Kibaki in 2002. In spite of all such evidence to the contrary, a Kikuyu will still look you in the eye and assure you of impending genocide by the Luo.

Kikuyus are killed by Mungiki and Kalenjin "warriors", yet still the fear focuses on Luos (see the politics forum). Most Kisumu deaths in 2007 were police killings of Luos at the behest of the Mt Kenya Mafia shadow government, unlike Rift Valley where Kalenjins killed Kyuks. Yet the fear of the Luo remains. Many Kyuks agree that Kibaki was rigged into power but they are grateful for that crime, even the truly democratic Kyuks breathed a sigh of relief.

This Luophobia staggers belief. It is incredulous beyond words. Talk about "morbid obsession" ---

As almasi points out, in the US, you see a similar phobia.

Personally, I have been stopped by an armed white cop on the I-80. I know very well that a black man must stay absolutely still in his car on the side of the road when stopped by a white cop, even if the music system is boom-twaffing like hell on earth. I don't even roll down my window. When he indicates that I should roll down my window, I notice something carazy: the guy is trembling. An armed trained white cop is trembling at me, who doesn't even know how to load bullets into a pistol!!

Blacks are only 10% of the US population. They were victims of 400 years of slavery, and were brought to the US under vicious violence and social destruction. They have had dogs set on them, they have been hang by kangaroo courts, they have been raped and had their women bear children for the "massas." You could be castrated for ogling a white woman. The white majority has superior technological and political organizational structures.

Yet somehow, the white man has a morbid fear of the black man!!

The Kikuyu-Luo case is even more strange. Circumcision is supposed to be rite of passage into manhood. Therefore the cut man is a tougher guy, yes? So why is he so afraid like a wet chicken of kihiis? Why do Luos make Kyuks pee in their pants? Hasn't it occurred to Kyuks that nobody else in Kenya - Kisiis, Luos, Kalenjins, Mwarabus, Taitas - are not peeing as well?

Walking down a street in Ohio at night, I observe the body language of whites. They try their best to be relaxed, but I must note the tension. I am a lone black. There are at least 30 white people in view, including drivers, pedestrians, shopkeepers, kids - if I were to start a fight, I'm outnumbered. Yet they still fear me. How would such people feel in a crowd -- or a city -- -- or a country -- or a continent -- full of blacks???

These are social illnesses.

That girl, and everyone else for that matter, do not be as simplistic as to compare tribalism to racism, both are heinous yes, but they are fundamentally different, but I will not delve into that just now. Tribalism in Kenya is stupid, an excuse for the elite to get what they want, and oh, it has so emasculated and harmed the peasant folk (this means most of you Mashadites, from many posts here, many of you are so stupid when it comes to this tribe thing) of two great tribes in Kenya the most; the Luo and Kikuyu.
While history has shown in Kenya that when these two tribes work together Kenya fares better, the elites of the two tribes (who care not for the country as they do for their own) have for ever tried to profit at the expense of the other, unfortunately, my brothers the Kikuyu elite are more shrewd and thus end up winners more.
Let me tell you guys what I witnessed during the 2007/2008. Due to the nature of my work then, I had to roam around Nairobi even when peasants where butchering each other thinking they are fighting for democracy (haki yetu) or protecting the house of mumbi (sic).
After one heavy day of ODM peasants vs police battles and the surrounding of Kibera by cops, I went with my driver for a drink at Alfajiri, one of the few pubs that was still operating. My friends, I nearly cried, sitting together with some sawa mama’s sipping on drinks, whispering and occasionally laughing loudly where the sons of John Michuki and Raila Odinga (for those who do not know, Alfajiri is owned by Michuki’s son). It dawned on me, these to guys did not give a f*ck that some stupid peasants where butchering themselves for their fathers causes!!!
Let me say this, tribalism will always, I repeat ALWAYS be evident in Kenya, just the same way subtle racism is such an arse in the US. But to quote Adma Smith from his Wealth of Nation, it does not need to hinder the development of the country, what every peasant in Kenya needs to do is note this, that; "Every individual is continually exerting himself to find out the most advantageous employment for whatever capital he can command. It is his own advantage, indeed, and not that of the tribe, which he has in view. But the study of his own advantage naturally, or rather necessarily, leads him to prefer that employment which is most advantageous to the society,” for the majority of Kikuyu’, Luos, Luhyas, even the purported murderous Kalenjin, do not kill your neighbor, find a common cause and make money with him. You do not need to like the man you make money with, but please for christ sake do not kill him because Ruto tells you to!!!!

To finish again from Smith, with paraphrases to suit Kenya, "[The Kikuyu, Luo, Luhya, Kalenjin, Kisii, Meru, Digo Taita, Maasai, Turkana…] neither intends to promote [his tribes] interest, nor knows how much he is promoting it. By preferring the support of domestic to that of foreign industry (in Kenya other tribes, basically other Kenyans), he intends only his own security; and by directing that industry in such a manner as its produce may be of the greatest value, he intends only his own gain, and he is in this, as in many other cases, led by an invisible hand to promote an end which was no part of his intention. In civilized society he [the triabalist] stands at all times in need of the cooperation and assistance of great multitudes (his tribes men, this is where the Kibaki's, Ruto's, Raila's etc excel at), while his whole life is scarce sufficient to gain the friendship of a few persons. In almost every other race of animals each individual, when it is grown up to maturity, is entirely independent, and in its natural state has occasion for the assistance of no other living creature. But man has almost constant occasion for the help of his brethren, and it is in vain for him to expect it from their benevolence only. He will be more likely to prevail if he can interest their self-love in his favour, and show them that it is for their own advantage to do for him what he requires of them. Whoever offers to another a bargain of any kind, proposes to do this. Give me that which I want, and you shall have this which you want (but please use goods and money not arrows and machetes), is the meaning of every offer; and it is in this manner that we obtain from one another the far greater part of those good offices which we stand in need of. It is not from the benevolence of Ruto, Raila, Kibaki, Michuki, Mudavadi, Karua, Balala or Kenyatta that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages."

Disclaimer: I have quoted Adam Smith extensively and tried to interpose his wise words with the Kenyan situation.

[reggaeBob]

Econ Major

It is an honorable thing that you would quote Adam Smith and the "Wealth of Nations". If only Kenya's MP's would read this document and think about it's meaning.

But let's boil down your duscussion to a simple - yet vitally important - point. There are two kinds of freedom that people can have. One is political freedom, And the other is economic freedom. As I have traveled widely in many countries, I have noticed that quite often political freedom is overstated. Even if people are fortunate and live in a democracy - all they get is one vote. Rarely does their voice have very much influence. And if they don't live in a democracy, then they just learn to keep their mouth shut and be quiet.

But on the other hand - economic freedom is a tremendously powerful thing. If people can have the freedom to really go where they want, to find whatever jobs are available, and to be employed without discrimination - that is a tremendously powerful thing in life!!! How much better off would Kenya be - if indeed everyone had such fereedom. Yet you know very well, such freedom does not exist for many, and they are condemned to lives where they are in economic slavery. Not only will they miss out on the privileged lives of the political and bunsiness leaders, they may not even have access to unga or maji ya kunywa. Not even basic food or clean drinking water. In fact, in the ghettos they may not even have a place where they can take a sh**, unless they put it in a plastic bag and throw it somewhere.

Can Kenya continue to withstand these enormous differences between the lives of the rich - and the lives of the poor and hopeless? Is this not a real driver of the problems concerning tribalism?

reggaeBob

[TikTok]

Originally Posted by reggaeBob

Econ Major

It is an honorable thing that you would quote Adam Smith and the "Wealth of Nations". If only Kenya's MP's would read this document and think about it's meaning.

But let's boil down your duscussion to a simple - yet vitally important - point. There are two kinds of freedom that people can have. One is political freedom, And the other is economic freedom. As I have traveled widely in many countries, I have noticed that quite often political freedom is overstated. Even if people are fortunate and live in a democracy - all they get is one vote. Rarely does their voice have very much influence. And if they don't live in a democracy, then they just learn to keep their mouth shut and be quiet.

But on the other hand - economic freedom is a tremendously powerful thing. If people can have the freedom to really go where they want, to find whatever jobs are available, and to be employed without discrimination - that is a tremendously powerful thing in life!!! How much better off would Kenya be - if indeed everyone had such fereedom. Yet you know very well, such freedom does not exist for many, and they are condemned to lives where they are in economic slavery. Not only will they miss out on the privileged lives of the political and bunsiness leaders, they may not even have access to unga or maji ya kunywa. Not even basic food or clean drinking water. In fact, in the ghettos they may not even have a place where they can take a sh**, unless they put it in a plastic bag and throw it somewhere.

Can Kenya continue to withstand these enormous differences between the lives of the rich - and the lives of the poor and hopeless? Is this not a real driver of the problems concerning tribalism?

reggaeBob

I think there are three freedoms, not two. Political, economic, and security. All these three must be taken care of or else a country risks being stunted at some point.

[githee]

Originally Posted by A.M Nafusi

That we can recognize our differences, embrace them and use the differences to complement each other?

I know am naive, but I live a more fulfilled life although I suffer more.

Let Luos identify their strong point: Academics, these fellows can tie u up in academic gobbledygook, with very little practical implementation.

Kyooks: very creative in real life situations. Although at times they end up with big moral dilemmas. The Luo can help the Kikuyu: Otieno produces the theories, Njoroge creates enterprenurship opportunities. The Luhyas just make sure the two egos are in check, and Kales become the large scale production engines of all these.

Blacks and whites: we seem to intrinsically have different approaches to life. White people are always in a survival mode. Very limited ability for human compassion overall.

(we had an explosion in a neighboring energy plant. The differences played out mpaka we burst laughing in our living room. Few hours later, the newspeople are interviewing employees. All black people are thanking their gods for being safe. 'Thank God we made it, no one died'. All white people were worried their about jobs and how they will compensated. None mentioned anything about coming out safely, honest.

Another instance. The Katrina floods. From the evacuation laws, you can tell they were mainly drawn by white people. That the able-bodied be evacuated first, and the critically ill last. Tell me if that will be accepted in Kakamega. There were two couples, white and black with half of each critically ill. The white couple: the wife kissed husband bye and left 2 days earlier. The black: the wife told the rescuer, if that man dies in that flood, so am I. I am not leaving him. She sat back with a book. The man was really ill, can not walk. The rescuer left them, came back 3 days later, they were not dead. Both couples survived, but see the difference.

These differences play out big time in real life. That is why I believe Africans can not be developed to Western standards.)

My whole Idea is: even though we pretend to detest each other, there are things we admire about each other. I admire the efficiency inclined white, while he admires my ability to love so deeply, both humans and the environment. Like most Africans do not get why anyone will run around shooting animals for sport. Shoot for food, share and go on.

I admire the Kyook for his ability to turn everything into enterprise, but he admires my understanding of concepts that would better boost him.

Is it really impossible to be different and progressive?

i really like the way you put it.
it is constructive pieces like these that we need to see more of.
cheers

[Ngwaci Nyoyo]

Most younger Kikuyus are not afraid of Luos. In fact, Kikuyus are least afraid of much but losing their hard earned assets. The other thing that most kikuyu's are aware of is that old kikuyu parental advice, "ungikarehe nyamu cia ruguru nyumba ino nirio ukamenya". What that really means is, "stick to your own kind, but if you really have to venture outside the boma then at least get another bantu. Maasais are okay too, especially the ones with common names with kikuyus.

[FAQ.]

interesting observation!

[mtunguvu]

Great analysis Bwana Econ Major. now to my point.
All tribes have stereotypes of other tribes, but the ones Type R gives here are very incorrect, and I respect type R on his many other opinions.
Kikuyus certainly do not fear nor feel terror when they see Luos. I once lived in Kisumu for about 5 months and I know they are some of the friendliest people in Kenya. I would even occasionally arrive at my temporary flat past midnight without any fear. I enjoyed nights out in the town and never felt threatened even once.
And I know several other Kikuyus who have stayed in luo-land pre- 2007 that without exception, they all say the people are friendly.
I live in Kenya and I can confidently tell you what you say applies to kikuyus views about the kalenjin. I believe any kikuyu would choose to have a luo neighbor but never a Kalenjin neighbor cos of the terror/murders/theft of animals/ arson, kales have caused kiuks over the years.
Certainly issues of dec 2007 & early 2008 changed opinions, but the reasons are too long to discuss here.
Stereotypes: both luos and kiuks have negative stereotypes against each other, but I will mention only a few that are not very offensive.
- that jaluos are easily excitable
- like to show off, even if the car is borrowed
- like women too much
- that he would rather live in a cheap house in a slum and have a big TV and good looking suit
- spend too much on luxury etc
but I do not believe this generalizations because I have lived with them and each is different . At non-political forum, I can talk about their women, how we interacted and their general attitudes cos I liked going out while there.

some other thing: At the moment most Kenyans have already recognized we have only 2 tribes here- the haves, and the have-nots.
especially when oil and maize scandals broke out and became obvious it's senior ministers involved plus a good number of MPs, that has helped to unite Kenyans. even the dawn accident involving Raila Jnr and Uhuru kin while driving their Mercedes from one party to another taught many Kenyans a lesson.