Central says a big NO to this stupid constitution!!!!

[TikTok]

Originally Posted by realdealmartin

a complete waste of human tissue, this one. I am yet to come across a more stupid fella than this.

Just type realdealmartin and voila you get a more stupid person...

[martin77]

Originally Posted by TikTok

Just type realdealmartin and voila you get a more stupid person...

To me The constitution is fine except I dont understand why most of the executive power should rest on an non elected official for an unlimited duration of time... I mean is that not every tyrant's dream?

If the idea is to split the poles of power between the president and the Pm, why not have both of them being elected officials with limited terms?

The premise and the conclusion are so far apart and so illogical that Its not hard to imagine the ODM stand on the constitution is just another way to sneak raila into power

[TikTok]

Originally Posted by martin77

To me The constitution is fine except I dont understand why most of the executive power should rest on an non elected official for an unlimited duration of time... I mean is that not every tyrant's dream?

If the idea is to split the poles of power between the president and the Pm, why not have both of them being elected officials with limited terms?

The premise and the conclusion are so far apart and so illogical that Its not hard to imagine the ODM stand on the constitution is just another way to sneak raila into power

Now that you are level headed with me, you will get a level headed response. The premise of having a PM with no term limits stems from the fact that he is being nominated from within his party like in the Westminster model. This model assumes that his party will have the checks and balances from within to weed him out once he loses faith with the populace, like we saw with Thatcher in 92 and Tony Blar in '07. This is informed from the fact that if the party does not act, it will almost certainly spell doom come the next general election, as wananchi will not just vote the weed out, but the whole party out of power.

Personally I do not like it, because power corrupts and the tendency is always to stick to it until all the chips are down for one to realise people really don't want him. In a tribal country like Kenya, it can be very emotive issue within a party and with a party's relationship with its constituents. A hypothetical example would be that say Raila has ruled for 6 years in a party where he has minority Mps with Uhuru and Ruto contributing the biggest block. Assume that his policies are no longer tenable. While a change of guard would refreshen and even re-invigorate the party he is in, special interests, say Uhuru with majority of MPs in Raila's ruling party may want to keep him on to further their interests. The reverse can also happen, where Ruto engineers a coup de tat even when wananchi still like Raila's policies asuming the policies are still teneble.

We wananchi should use the phase in the constitution making where we give our views to ammend the rule to make the PM automatically disqualified if he clears 2 four year terms and this should trigger an election.

[msaliti]

Originally Posted by martin77

To me The constitution is fine except I dont understand why most of the executive power should rest on an non elected official for an unlimited duration of time... I mean is that not every tyrant's dream?

If the idea is to split the poles of power between the president and the Pm, why not have both of them being elected officials with limited terms?

The premise and the conclusion are so far apart and so illogical that Its not hard to imagine the ODM stand on the constitution is just another way to sneak raila into power

I certainly agree with you bwana Martin, My question is also plain simple. Why would the person who goes round the country looking for votes not be the one with executive authority? I find this quite hard to understand. And they even say there will be the position of deputy president. Now if the president is ceremonial, honestly what will be the role of the vice president?

These so called experts are nothing but a bunch of confused idiots. If you look at a country like Israel where the president is ceremonial, you will find that he is elected by parliament and so is Germany. You can't have a popularly elected president idling in state house, ati he is the commander in chief. My foot when was the last time that kenya went to war? It just does not add up to me.

[yangu]

Originally Posted by lullay

Based on the briefs in the papers, this is a problematic constitution, we may view it from our usual myopic eye, by looking at the positions, power structures and emotionally making an association with current political personalities and depending on ones political inclination 'today' we may think it wonderful or hate it.
Just remove these personalities or PNU, ODM ,KANU from the equation for they are not made of stone and cannot hence last forever and you have country in a perpetual state of conflict and which is ungovernable and very expensive. I wonder who has being providing the advise to that constitution.

We cannot realistically write in a minefield into the constitution.

Hongera lully, your eyes can see clearly.

[TikTok]

Originally Posted by msaliti

I certainly agree with you bwana Martin, My question is also plain simple. Why would the person who goes round the country looking for votes not be the one with executive authority? I find this quite hard to understand. And they even say there will be the position of deputy president. Now if the president is ceremonial, honestly what will be the role of the vice president?

These so called experts are nothing but a bunch of confused idiots. If you look at a country like Israel where the president is ceremonial, you will find that he is elected by parliament and so is Germany. You can't have a popularly elected president idling in state house, ati he is the commander in chief. My foot when was the last time that kenya went to war? It just does not add up to me.

The Kenyan model does not envision a ceremonial president per se, and there in lies the difference with the other models. Ours is similar to the French one where executive authority is shared between Prime minister and President. The moment authority is given accountability, then deputising in one form or the other becomes a necessity for continuity of office. If the president is purely ceremonial, then no need for deputy.

[dreadloxx]

Originally Posted by Rwathia

We are rejecting this silly constitution pronto....mpende msipende!!!

Kama hakuna propotional representation then we better secede...we should cut up this country once and for all before 2012!!

Aiiiii!!!!??Hii ni nini??
Who is "we"?
Highlight points tht u think are contentious..besides its jst a draft..bado tha steps are mob...by highlightin wht u think are contentious u demonstrate tht u knw wht u speak of...rushin to conclusions does NOT help in any way...talk of secession by anyone in the 21st Century is simply archaic and backward..

[msaliti]

Originally Posted by TikTok

The Kenyan model does not envision a ceremonial president per se, and there in lies the difference with the other models. Ours is similar to the French one where executive authority is shared between Prime minister and President. The moment authority is given accountability, then deputising in one form or the other becomes a necessity for continuity of office. If the president is purely ceremonial, then no need for deputy.

Tik Tok you're just displaying intellectual dishonesty here. Just have a look at the leaked doc and tell me what the president will be doing other than just endorsing the decisions of the PM. This model just can't work, it will cause friction for nothing coz the PNU guys will not buy it. Worse still they have the numbers and means to shoot the whole damn thing to the garbage again.


I guess we should just remain with an executive president whose powers are checked by parliament and a PM who is below the president. Otherwise it will be total chaos in Kenya.

[martin77]

Originally Posted by TikTok

The Kenyan model does not envision a ceremonial president per se, and there in lies the difference with the other models. Ours is similar to the French one where executive authority is shared between Prime minister and President. The moment authority is given accountability, then deputising in one form or the other becomes a necessity for continuity of office. If the president is purely ceremonial, then no need for deputy.

At the end of the day, every politician's goal is to wield power. As someone points out, who would waste time and money on a campaign where his only job will be to cut ribbons to open schools and cattle dips?

The executive power belongs to the guy who controls the executive read the cabinet, the armed forces etc etc, That, under the new constitution is the PM. Who is not elected by the people but by a cabal of politicians who as Tik points out have agendas of their own. Honestly, is there a kenyan alive who wants to give up their say over who runs this country to that bunch on parliament road who cant even be bothered to pay their taxes?

If democracy is to give more power to the people, is not this constitution defeating this purpose? I mean the people get to elect the guy who has no power to do anything. The politicians get to pick the guy who calls the shots?

That sounds a lot like parliamentary tyranny.

[martin77]

Originally Posted by msaliti

Tik Tok you're just displaying intellectual dishonesty here. Just have a look at the leaked doc and tell me what the president will be doing other than just endorsing the decisions of the PM. This model just can't work, it will cause friction for nothing coz the PNU guys will not buy it. Worse still they have the numbers and means to shoot the whole damn thing to the garbage again.


I guess we should just remain with an executive president whose powers are checked by parliament and a PM who is below the president. Otherwise it will be total chaos in Kenya.

An easy way to see how this will pan out is to look at the way local governments operate now. mayors are elected by Kanjuras and not by the public.

Is anyone surprised that year in year out, we keep having thugs running around under the title of His Worship? Look at the levels of corruption and deal making that goes before any mayoral election? The result is that half of kenyans do not even know who their mayors are let alone what they are supposed to be doing ostensibly in their name.

Anyone who imagines a different scenario under the new constitution is dreaming. parliament must itself have checks even as they apply checks on the executive. Unbridled power is disastrous.