Khadhi Courts, aren't we playing with fire?

[Specimen-X]

I feel so tiny and small in this forum. Ati am a junior member and some forks abroad are senior members. Ati I can't mix 90's Ololo Sheng and some f***ng exotic slang in my posts.
But I like the way u guys analyse politics here while we suffer.
Just look at this Passat thing of Uhuru. We Know Moi has many shares from CMC so Kajwangi's questios is partly answered. Who then will benefit from the benzes?

[hussein296]

Originally Posted by specimen-x

omin, am sure mashadaites, brain cells are ever fresh and unfatigued. Thats why folks like u c far and think ahead. There should me no of those kadhi courts. We know whats happening in somalia, darfur, afghanistan et al. This courts is just legalizing a pseudo mungiki thing. Thats bin laden osama in sheep skin. ...... How can we retire kibaki before 2012, coz he wont be able to handle the thing?

haha kweli we need help, it seem like our people back home are heading head down a deep hole. And believe all those haters when real war start they would be fast to run away. It cowards way thankfully majority of kenyans do not share your views. Look the people who want to stop khadis court are trying to raise an issue government is not willing to allow to be debated why? it was already a law in kenya.. New katiba means being more inclusive not excluding anyone...so anyone calling for removing anyone rights from constitution is standing on a very thin ground indeed. Our brothers and sisters in kenya not along ago participated in consultation concerning katiba...guess what the issue of khadis court removal was not raised....but our preso was a wrongly advised to oppose original katiba due to powerful vested interest. Come forward the year 2009 kenya is in grip of few hate mongers hell bent on causing religious war to please their evangelical masters in us in return for money,scholarship and few goodies...which i am afraid it going to be bitter in long run. Vast majority of our people are living in poverty and it futile for me to waste my time with few haters.let see how we can help people instead of hate.

[mmnjug]

Originally Posted by NEW KENYA

everything in Kenya is done for the sake of elections, the idiotic leaders who support kadhi courts only care for the muslim vote..........

Not At All.
The Kadhi's Courts are nothing new in Kenya's Constitution. They have been in the constitution since independence. We need to have these so called religious leaders come clean on actually which part of the Kadhi's Court they don't feel comfortable with. Its a shame that they are turning what is a straight forward issue into one of the most sensational issues of the process.
What they fail to understand is that Kadhi's Courts deal with Personal Law. This means that unless both parties are Muslims, then the Courts are irrelevant. This is because Muslim Sharia law has specific clauses on how to conduct Marriage, Inheritance, Divorce and Muslim wrangles unlike in Christianity and other religions.

So there is nothing to be afraid of. It just a bunch of religious hot-heads led by the Evangelicals and the Come-lately's into the saga like Methodist who are fighting for relevance in the current political dispensation.
My advise to Kenyans is that these so called leaders kept quiet when Kenya was burning; why trust them now when the Constitution is just a few months away.
Shut them up for posterity.

[hussein296]

Originally Posted by mmnjug

not at all. The kadhi's courts are nothing new in kenya's constitution. They have been in the constitution since independence. We need to have these so called religious leaders come clean on actually which part of the kadhi's court they don't feel comfortable with. Its a shame that they are turning what is a straight forward issue into one of the most sensational issues of the process. What they fail to understand is that kadhi's courts deal with personal law. This means that unless both parties are muslims, then the courts are irrelevant. This is because muslim sharia law has specific clauses on how to conduct marriage, inheritance, divorce and muslim wrangles unlike in christianity and other religions. So there is nothing to be afraid of. It just a bunch of religious hot-heads led by the evangelicals and the come-lately's into the saga like methodist who are fighting for relevance in the current political dispensation. My advise to kenyans is that these so called leaders kept quiet when kenya was burning; why trust them now when the constitution is just a few months away. Shut them up for posterity.

man you hit it head on, when kenya was burning and church burned what did they do nothing? they kept so quite that it was almost deafening to witness. Children, women burned in a church yet they never dared to open their mouth to criticise...these remind me of the role played by the church in rwanda genocide, they simply lose credibilty i mean how on earth can you be man of god yet tribalist at same time???? how....kenyans invested heavily on people of cloth and like our rwandese counterpart we have been let down....the role muslims played in rwanda despite risk shows that we are peaceful people....bishop margaret wanjiru and cohorts are standing on a very thin ground indeed it matter of time when everyone see them for what they are. Kibaki now has to deliver with iron rod the katiba, he would judged on that only. History beckons mzee amka na uzenge katiba.khadis court only deal with personal law and has been in kenya for long time.... Why is it an issue now? what are they or who are they trying to please? the americans themselves have called for quick reform in kenya to stop all these people who are hell bent on fostering hate right and left. Bush and blairs time in history is over including all those evangelical bible brigades have no power back... When you look at it hard to believe these is love that christianity calls for or as muslims call them and jews the people of the book...fairness and justice is something we use to take for granted from our fellow monothiestic faith despite secular western trying to drive a wedge between people for economic interest. I think all these islam bashing is becoming boring c'mon, it hypocrisy to preach anti racism to whites when we africans have been consumed by hates for each other, how many hates kikuyus, somalis, indians, luos or anyone they deem more successful than them?? i think british national party would have field day if they dared to recruit in kenya....man people hates islam and call arabs all kinda names why? is it the same thing that happened to both kikuyus and luos in pev. Yes to destroy is easy thing but to build very hard indeed, so we need to be aware the harmony our ancestors build amongst tribes is unique...while our fellow central province brothers fought the colonialist we all helped one way or other... Including arabs in coast...it just history is so one sided no one get credit except those who grabbed power. Egyptian gamel abdil nasser together with kwame nkrumah started the pan-arab african movement from north to southern sub sahara. So when you insult your fellow human being on basis of religion or tribe think before hand or keep quite. Look how united we where against racial politics in south africa then look at how secular west has managed to divide us once we became free, we became free all but in a name. It important to be aware that divisions is due to economic well being of west only. An africa united without problems means less likelyhood of being ripped off our preciuous raw materials for almost next to nothing in return for high interest debt....when you see children starving be aware that chain of events led to these starting from western goverment to corrupt regimes who refused to provide basic neccessity of life. We in kenya are in very advanced stage of collapse and may god help us. So all these people peddling divisions and disahrmony should be aware they are a chain in an event beyond their control. It hypocrisy of western secular nations to preach democracy and fairness when they do excatly opposite in real life. Thankfully people here in west have seen the reality and are doing everything in their power to stop these chain of events or refuse to be party to it, so it very sad to witness our own oppressed people are peddling these fascism and inequality.kweli they say when you become slave it very hard to remove slave mentality from you behaviour, we are truly worse slaves than our ancestors who where physically a slave but not in mentality like us now.... So much that excessive consumerism of western goods from football, clothes, musics or anything from west is order of the day.while we destroy our own factories, football clubs and others in return for what? we even copy western manners so in west it was cool to be an islamic or anti religion...loool.

[rexx]

Nyef , Nyef , Nyef ...!!

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the history of this issue is quite simple ..
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Just prior to the lancaster house conference , the sultan (who "owned" the 10 mile coastal strip) expressed his misgivings to the british colonial authorities as to how his muslim "subjects" would be treated by the majority christian "infidels" who were comming into power in 1962.
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One of the many conditions agreed upon for his release of the 10 mile coastal strip was that his "subjects" be allowed freedom to practice their religion without hinderance and the establishment of kadhis courts subordinate to any legal system being set up.
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Our short-sighted "founding" fathers did not have the forsight then to forsee what mess this would create in future.

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Think logically about this ...
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In a multi-ethnic democratic nation ( 5 races / 43 tribes and countless religions / faiths and sects ) ... Is it fair to allow muslims only the privilage of their own kadhi courts ..???
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Suppose other minorities / interest groups start agitating for their own religious courts applying the same arguments as the muslims ,... Are we going to allow them ..???
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If not , why not ..???
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My humble view :-
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As our current constitution respects and accommodates all the basic freedoms ( free speach / worship / association ..etc..etc..) - no religion , sect , race , clique should enjoy any special privilages.
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simple.
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REXX

[hussein296]

Originally Posted by rexx

nyef , nyef , nyef ...!! . the history of this issue is quite simple .. . Just prior to the lancaster house conference , the sultan (who "owned" the 10 mile coastal strip) expressed his misgivings to the british colonial authorities as to how his muslim "subjects" would be treated by the majority christian "infidels" who were comming into power in 1962. . One of the many conditions agreed upon for his release of the 10 mile coastal strip was that his "subjects" be allowed freedom to practice their religion without hinderance and the establishment of kadhis courts subordinate to any legal system being set up. . our short-sighted "founding" fathers did not have the forsight then to forsee what mess this would create in future. . think logically about this ... . in a multi-ethnic democratic nation ( 5 races / 43 tribes and countless religions / faiths and sects ) ... Is it fair to allow muslims only the privilage of their own kadhi courts ..??? . suppose other minorities / interest groups start agitating for their own religious courts applying the same arguments as the muslims ,... Are we going to allow them ..??? . if not , why not ..??? . my humble view :- . as our current constitution respects and accommodates all the basic freedoms ( free speach / worship / association ..etc..etc..) - no religion , sect , race , clique should enjoy any special privilages. . simple. . Rexx

you speak without any sense of fairness and rational thinking, take your quote 10 mile coastal strip or sultan. It simple you are racist and deluded individual no matter how you dress up your post your filthy heart is their for all to see. Ati lancaster house what you on about, in case you forget muslims are also in north eastern kenya,part of eastern province, nairobi and don't forget luos and luhyas muslims who reside in western kenya. Man their are muslims from every tribe in kenya etc. Kikuyu's and others.....so you need to accept that we make up significant numbers in kenya and despite your dressing it up as something like 0.5 percent. Constitutions is about inclusions not denying someone right, others religions have no need for separate court or laws. It only muslims who need khadis court to deal with personal laws etc marriage, divorce issues. You can talk all your logical garbage but facts is you are a dog dressing up as christian and in doing so you are bring christians faith into disrepute. Shut up you evangelical wannabe. How on earth can call yourself a christian yet you want to peddle lies in here? how your and your traitor margaret wanjiru can go to hell, why should we listen to a woman who is friendly with killers of her own people...she has nobody in most kenyans including 11 millions of our central province brothers who fully know her well.a traitor of worse kind

[i_dont_care]

Originally Posted by Shagster

Think of it this way..the kadhi's courts have been there since before you were born (assuming that you are not more than 150 yrs old), assuming that you are in the late twenties i can imagine that you have been following the news for the past 10-15yrs. Had you ever heard of Kadhi's courts before some people wanted to remove them from the constitution? If the answer is no, then ask yourself why they would affect you now if they didnt affect you before the issue was politicised.

Thanx Omin for the link. That shows that the info is there but some people are just lazy and prefer to follow the crowd like sheep. A kenyan suffering from islamophobia is the most absurd thing that can happen. We are quick to shout racism when we are abroad but we are the biggest racists. We hate muslims, hindus, jaluos, kikuyus, arabs, etc and then dont understand how whites can be racist towards africans. Style up Kenya, let us open our minds and be curious and try to find info for ourselves..A dozen muslims blew up the american embassy and killed innocent kenyans, a dozen kikuyu attacked in naivasha, a dozen luo burnt shops in kisumu, a dozen kalenjin attacked in RV, that doesnt mean we should hate all groups regardless of what individuals in that group think or say.

We are all individuals and we should look at people as individuals, get to know them if you are interested, otherwise just respect and go your way. In my opinion thats the only way forward. We have much in our hands today other than wasting time on issues that dont affect us, like kadhi's courts or 2 men getting married in London. Let us identify our real enemies, the ones who loot from our meagre resources every day and night, divide us along lines they find convenient, all while their children party together in european capitals and we struggle to feed our families and to pay the taxes so that they can loot more. Look at the papers, money meant for aids victims dissapears, money for dams dissapeared, money for free education dissapears etc. Lets talk about that and how the constitution can be changed to make sure that in the future the thieves in suits will pay severely..

you make a bad salesman. if you want people to accept you, you tell them who you are. is that too much to ask?

hussein, you go round and round in circles writing paragraphs and paragraphs of irrelevancies, leaving the main point untouched. the question i want answered is what is kadhi courts? what do they do? what are their powers? what are their limits? can you give a case file of what they have done in simple non legal language so that every tom **** and harry can see and know?

i see mmnjug has tried, but this the same refrain we have heard over and over again like a broken record..

What they fail to understand is that Kadhi's Courts deal with Personal Law. This means that unless both parties are Muslims, then the Courts are irrelevant. This is because Muslim Sharia law has specific clauses on how to conduct Marriage, Inheritance, Divorce and Muslim wrangles unlike in Christianity and other religions.

tell us what is this personal law and such stuff. pointing to margaret wanjiru and church does not help your cause. damn!

[dreadloxx]

Originally Posted by shagster

hehehe are you guys serious? tell me you are being ironic.. Kadhis courts existed in kenya long before our parents were born and until now they continue to operate. We havent see any bras being banned or people being forced to grow beards in the century of the courts' existence. Why would it start now? i dont understand this noise about kadhi's court. They only handle issues of marriage, divorce, inheritance etc between muslims who decide to solve their issues there. In matters of crime etc it is the normal courts people have to go to. So i dont see how the kadhi's courts affects me, other non-muslims and muslims who wish to solve thir problems elsewhere. Why people are so much against them. Pilipili tusioila yatuwashiani?!?!

yea kadhi courts have existed but remember at the time of independence the brits had to please the sultanate of zanzibar as far as their interests in the kenyan coast were concerned,kadhis courts can exist there is no issue the issue is they should not be in the constitution,u can have an act of parliament sort tht out and have the kadhis paid using some other means other than tax payers money directly..why pay a salo for smeone who will never serve me? all in all they should not be in the constitution if we say that we are a secular state and tht religion and state are separate.

[Shagster]

Originally Posted by i_dont_care

you make a bad salesman. if you want people to accept you, you tell them who you are. is that too much to ask?

hussein, you go round and round in circles writing paragraphs and paragraphs of irrelevancies, leaving the main point untouched. the question i want answered is what is kadhi courts? what do they do? what are their powers? what are their limits? can you give a case file of what they have done in simple non legal language so that every tom **** and harry can see and know?

i see mmnjug has tried, but this the same refrain we have heard over and over again like a broken record..




tell us what is this personal law and such stuff. pointing to margaret wanjiru and church does not help your cause. damn!

For one I am not trying to sell anything, and I know that I am not good at sales..which is why I am not working in sales.

Now you have been given kenya's judiciary website website which explains the roles and jurisiction of the kadhi's courts. Read it...

You want a case..let's see. I personally know a muslim lady who obtained divorce from the kadhi's court because her husband has been abroad for 5 yrs and was not sending her any money for upkeep. Did that remove ugali from your table?

As to dreadloxx saying that he doesnt want to pay kadhi's salaries, muslims pay taxes which pay for things they never use, and so do hindus, christians et al. If everyone started saying I do not want to pay for this or that then it destroys the whole essence of taxes. It is called solidarity. We should be shouting about the billions being stolen and wasted by our politicians, the millions lost in unpaid taxes by MPs, the poor construction of infrastructure which crumbles after a year etc. Not about something which eases the burden from our very much much behind schedule courts by solving personal matters between muslims according to islamic law.

Thats it from me on this topic. Like typical kenyans your minds are made up, nothing anyone will say or do will make you say "I guess you are right, thanks for showing me the truth"...which is why we have a very long way to go before becoming a civilised nation..

[omin]

I think the idea of Kadhi courts should be spread to handle domestic and family matters which are best handled by people who understand the traditions and culture of the given group. The fact that these chaps are appointed by the chief justice makes them accountabe. I wounder why the only sensible thing that I've heard of in the new constitution is causing so much controversy. Sounds to me as if someone somewhere wants to see Kenya burning again. Why? I think they just want the status quo.