Ruto and Bett: Stay put in Mau let there be desert.

[Ni_Diambo]

Originally Posted by Type R

Desertification results from the breaking of the cyclical chain linking several elements in an ecosystem.

You jumped a step there, hold on! From moisture in the air ---- to rain -- doesn't happen by magic. What causes condensation?

* Trees also act as a windbreak, creating turbulence that slows down moisture-laden air from passing to the next area. In fact, when places like Israel want to reclaim deserts, this is the first step -- to build windbreaks. You want moisture to collect in a single area - you need to stop the wind from moving to do that. When the moisture has collected so that the air is "heavy", the cooling effect will do its job and convert vapour into droplets.

That statement in red is too general that it doesn't convey any information. As for the one in blue, and trees being "coolants" and wind-breakers, this is my understanding - from Std 5 as well

First, moisture definitely needs dust particles to condense around. There's tonnes of micro dust particles always sitting out there in the sky.

Now, trees are wind-breakers, and cooling agents at ground level. Condensation occurs way up there, thousands of feet above ground. In addition, I remember two types of rain: Convectional and Relief. If the lake is there, and the sun, convectional rain will always happen in the lake region, for example. Note the "if."

As for relief rain, which, I think, is the "majority", it depends on elevation of the land, and this does not change with deforestation. Therefore, while convectional rain may (theoretically) decline, relief rain (from ocean winds such as monsoons) will always re-charge the lake through "faster-flowing" rivers, thus restoring the convectional system.

In brief, I still don't see HOW forests vuruta mvua.

@lullay

So I was right. In regards to water conservation, forests are useful only AFTER the fact, i.e. after it has rained. They do not bring rain.

@Econ Major

We are in the same camp. Welcome.

[Native Son.]

Originally Posted by pirates of mogadishu

Willy and Bett have beat about turn and told their supporters to stay put in Mau. The about-turn further complicates efforts to conserve the critical water tower destroyed through deforestation.

Chungwa moja maisha bora. They further dismissed PM task force on mau as sham and having done a shoddy job
DAILY NATION- Ministers tell Mau settlers to stay put

Who will talk sense to these people. There shall come people with eyes but dont see, a people who justifies everything wrong to be right so as to their selfish gain.

What is Kiuna doing with murderers?

In addition to being a murderer, the fellow on his left is also a mega thief. He stole nine acres of Ngong forest and forcefully sold them to Kenya Pipeline under the former thieving Moi regime.

The fellow to his left was mentioned inthe massacre in the Rift Vallley. As a former State House Comptroller, he oversaw KEnya being raped by Moi and his mafia gang.

[Mureithi1964]

whata a selfish, egoistic politicians they are only interested in their shor term earnings. Please raise to reason messers willy & Bett.

[88baller]

Truth be told..the only reason why those people are sitting pretty in mau is because of ODM. Raila is being held hostage by Ruto n co. Am sure Kibaki has absolutely no problem with guys being kicked out of mau,aftral thats what happened in mt.kenya. Let ODM tell us when they are done playing politics and Raila should quit being a populist!

[Type R]

Originally Posted by Ni_Diambo

Now, trees are wind-breakers, and cooling agents at ground level. Condensation occurs way up there, thousands of feet above ground.

Hot air rises, from the ground to "thousands of feet above ground." If such hot convection as allowed to continue, the moist air in the upper atmosphere will never cool down/condense.

Forests break this chain of events -- By cooling ground air, there is a reduction of the warming of the upper atmosphere by rising air. Assuming the theory of freezing particles around which drops condense is true, a 1 degree Celsius change -- plus or minus -- is all that is needed between rain and no rain.

With ground temperatures varying between 4 and 10 degrees between a vegetated area and arid land, it is conceivable that the removal of ground cover could be felt up there, thousands of feet away. After all, events in Africa affect the weather in USA -- and events in Asia affect us in Kenya. Therefore A few thousand feet into the air is nothing. It's called "The Butterfly Effect." Google that!

What do you think?

[kiptur]

Originally Posted by Ni_Diambo

That statement in red is too general that it doesn't convey any information. As for the one in blue, and trees being "coolants" and wind-breakers, this is my understanding - from Std 5 as well

First, moisture definitely needs dust particles to condense around. There's tonnes of micro dust particles always sitting out there in the sky.

Now, trees are wind-breakers, and cooling agents at ground level. Condensation occurs way up there, thousands of feet above ground. In addition, I remember two types of rain: Convectional and Relief. If the lake is there, and the sun, convectional rain will always happen in the lake region, for example. Note the "if."

As for relief rain, which, I think, is the "majority", it depends on elevation of the land, and this does not change with deforestation. Therefore, while convectional rain may (theoretically) decline, relief rain (from ocean winds such as monsoons) will always re-charge the lake through "faster-flowing" rivers, thus restoring the convectional system.

In brief, I still don't see HOW forests vuruta mvua.

@lullay

So I was right. In regards to water conservation, forests are useful only AFTER the fact, i.e. after it has rained. They do not bring rain.

@Econ Major

We are in the same camp. Welcome.

If you carefully study hydrological cycle, you will understand why forest huvuta mvua,In Hydrological cycle there are several variables that maintain the cycle.The relative importance of this variables vary from one place to another..For example in kisumu area,I would consider evaporation from the lake to be a major variable,without the lake rain in Kisumu will go down,

In mt Kenya and Mau, I would say the Forest and the high elevation are major factors in this cycle,If you consider Kenya as a whole, I think Forests play a major role..because with no forest even the lakes will dry up..and the cycle stops

check this illustration


You say Moonsoon and other winds across the ocean will drive the 'convectional cyle' but you shouldn't forget the effect of this winds only covers a very limited area of the mainland.
At the moment several rivers from Mau have already dried up..in the next few years the lakes which depended on them will dry up too...and Kenya will be one big Desert..

[kiptur]

...forest helps sustain streamflow by reducing evaporation (e.g., owing to slightly lower temperatures in shaded areas). Forests can help increase recharge to aquifers by allowing more precipitation to infiltrate the soil, as opposed to rapidly running off the land to a downslope area.
In essence, the forest acts like a giant sponge, filtering and recycling water. Approximately 80 percent of U.S. fresh-water resources are estimated to originate in forests, which cover one-third of the U.S. land area. (Forest Hydrology)

So guys let us not lessen the importance of forest...Forets cover in kenya is only 2%,We should aim at more than 10% forest cover.

[Ni_Diambo]

@Type R

Butterfly Effect! New stuff to me. Looked it up on Wiki and other sources. Looks like a treatment on the “Theory of Chaos!” Could not link it with the question at hand viz. “How do forests vuruta mvua?” Please, fafanua kidogo with this Effect.

Hot air rises, from the ground to "thousands of feet above ground." If such hot convection as allowed to continue, the moist air in the upper atmosphere will never cool down/condense.

All that is required for condensation are the dust particles and cool temperatures. While forests have a minor cooling effect, you do not need trees for cool temperatures (I think). Altitude alone is enough. Look at the top of Mt Kenya, Kilimanjaro, Everest or the Andes. Note, the cooling, to the point of freezing, does not come from Mt. Kenya Forest. It is due to altitude alone.

@kiptur

True, there is transpiration from vegetation. There is also moisture from animal vapours. In the bigger picture, these contribute very little to total rainfall (again, I think). Otherwise, shouldn’t we be having close to daily rainfall in the “green” parts of Kenya, such as Western and the Highlands? Why do we still have to wait for “The rainy season?” I’m neither a hydrologist nor a geographer. But I strongly suspect that our rain is largely relief, and convectional in the Lake Basin region.

As for your second post, that’s perfectly sound, and that’s what I’ve been saying all this time. Forests (and vegetation) are effective in conserving rain after it falls. They do not bring rain – or do they? That’s the question.

[kiptur]

Originally Posted by Ni_Diambo

@Type R

Butterfly Effect!

As for your second post, that’s perfectly sound, and that’s what I’ve been saying all this time. Forests (and vegetation) are effective in conserving rain after it falls. They do not bring rain – or do they? That’s the question.

Rain is part of a cycle,( hydrological cycle) you break the cycle you have no rain,just like the way Malaria is part of a cycle you kill the mosquitoes you have no malaria

The point is, in some areas, especially highland areas, the evapotransipiration effect and conservation of rain after it falls by forests is so important that if you deforest the area the hydrological cycle stops-the rain stops too.Conservation of rain water by forests,provides the reservoir from which evaporation occurs and supply moisture that condenses and ultimately falls as rain.
You asked why we have rainfall seasons instead of having rainfall everyday in forested areas, but you must understand,rain formation process depends on a range of factors,such as air pressure,wind, temperature e.t.c, now, all this factors are influenced by the sun,that why in the hydrological cycle you have the sun as the source of power.

Position of the sun relative to the earth, of course this is controlled by the revolution of the earth around the sun, which takes a year, so only when the position of the sun allows conducive weather elements, that is when the rain falls, but this still doesn't dilute the importance of forests as a factor in this process.I

Look at Mau complex, river Njoro and lake nakuru are drying up.. no evaporation! hydrological cycle is broken ,no enough forest cover to support meaningful evapotranspiration..meaning the air is dry and no water to condense to form rain...no rain.

Conclusion; Forests do bring rain.

[komboshta]

...Nice thread people, keep it up...
Kiptur, Type R, Diambs, POM, and the rest....

However i couldn't help noticing that the usual Ruto brigade here, has given this thread a wide berth....

..Anyhow, as far as trees, Mau forest are concerned;

...I think forest cover plays a much greater role in determining rainfall, in that,
forested regions generate large-scale flows in atmospheric water vapor, and this will explain why high rainfall is like to occur in continental interiors e.g Amazon and Congo river basins only because of near-continuous forest cover.

...Mainly the because of evaporation and condensation in generating atmospheric pressure differences....thats what i think i stand to be corrected....

..And maybe we don't have to wait for so long before we flip a usually wet Mau to semi-arid area, courtesy of {and here is the irony} Minister for agriculture who should know better

..A few years ago, there were organizations spearheading and sensitizing the masses, on a lot of issues to do with trees, substantial agriculture and other great ideas.....KENGO and miti mingi mashambani..., i don't know where they are!!!!