[missed call]

since raila, wako and ringera were well briefed and were part of the deal, how then does raila chair a committee investigating the deal? who is fooling who here? all the involved people should be brought into books! hata kama ni kibaki!

[mak&emoto]

Missed Call,
Kimunya is drowning and so you can expect him to clutch at straws. He will shout Raila Knew, Wako Knew, Ringera Knew, everyone Knew, but all that is irrelevant.

The moment Pattni signed the consent, the GR became public property to be managed by CBK. So all that crap going round about GR being "Debt Security" ceases to matter. Once CBK took possession it had no alternative, but to apply the Law & follow it strictly on the disposal.

Further more, whether Raila or Ringera knew about the deal or not, it is not their business or responsibility to approve the sale of public property. That responsibility is clearly defined in law and rests with the Privatization Commission of Kenya which operates under the Ministry of Finance. It also requires that such disposals be approved by cabinet.

Wako's responsibility in such a case is to give legal advice and he only gives this advice when asked. Did CBK or Kimunya request his legal opinion on the sale? In any case why was Kimunya poking his nose in what is basically a CBK -Pattni affair?

Make no mistake, we all know that one Emilio is a very interested party in the GR deal, but for the time being, we will settle for Kimunya.

[Makosaimefanyika]

I want to agree with the senior member,mak&emoto. i really doubt if these things could have been done without the blessings of the highest office. Kimunya may be the sacrificial lamb here, but he deserves it given the manner in which he has run the treasury in a dismissive manner.

So is he saying GR was not another fish market?

By the way cn someone educate me on the recent allegations that Safcom had huge debts that were not disclosed in the prospectus during the IPO, thereby duping the public on the capitalization of the company?

[missed call]

the fact that raila and the rest knew doesnt make kimunya clean. that is clear from me. but what am saying is that, since they also agree to have been briefed all along, they should own up. si kimunya peke yake. raila too should tell us what he knew and why he let it happen.

[reilly]

so it goes around.Raila was so anti-safaricom ipo but then he got into the loop.He was told to there is a grand regency plot where he could still kula in a major way.What i see is that Raila an Baks are both verily embedded in this grand regency mess.Kimunya is just the scapegoat.Don't forget that the mps who are leading these anti-Kimunya photo-ops are the same one who don't wanna pay their fair share of taxes.They hating Kimunya coz they not in government themselves.Not that they actually cared.Jirongo all of a sudden is the poor peoples champion!!!gimme a break!It's spin in it's finest.So the games continue.Unfortunately they expect the Kenyans maintain their passivity an soberness an accept being taken for a ride one more tyme.Not this tyme!!Baks an Raila ,together with their fellow *****es of mps an public servants need to shape up real fast.It's gotten old.

[missed call]

Originally Posted by reilly

so it goes around.Raila was so anti-safaricom ipo but then he got into the loop.He was told to there is a grand regency plot where he could still kula in a major way.What i see is that Raila an Baks are both verily embedded in this grand regency mess.Kimunya is just the scapegoat.Don't forget that the mps who are leading these anti-Kimunya photo-ops are the same one who don't wanna pay their fair share of taxes.They hating Kimunya coz they not in government themselves.Not that they actually cared.Jirongo all of a sudden is the poor peoples champion!!!gimme a break!It's spin in it's finest.So the games continue.Unfortunately they expect the Kenyans maintain their passivity an soberness an accept being taken for a ride one more tyme.Not this tyme!!Baks an Raila ,together with their fellow *****es of mps an public servants need to shape up real fast.It's gotten old.

but doesnt mean that kimunya didnt mess up. he and raila and the other thieves who knew well about it should b brought into books. no politics here. unfortunately, wako and ringera are also in the circle.

[mak&emoto]

Originally Posted by Makosaimefanyika

I want to agree with the senior member,mak&emoto. i really doubt if these things could have been done without the blessings of the highest office. Kimunya may be the sacrificial lamb here, but he deserves it given the manner in which he has run the treasury in a dismissive manner.

So is he saying GR was not another fish market?

By the way cn someone educate me on the recent allegations that Safcom had huge debts that were not disclosed in the prospectus during the IPO, thereby duping the public on the capitalization of the company?

Makosa,
Safcom has an undisclosed debt of 68.8Bn in its books. This is a material issue that should have been disclosed in the prospectus, but they hid it.

When industry watchers and ODM raised hell, they issued an addendum to the prospectus (a few days to closing of the offer). That action was in bad faith and in total breach of acceptable financial reporting standards and CMA requirements.

Well, finally Kimunya now knows that while GR is not a Fish Market it certainly aint no Githeri Kiosk!

[mkenyaasili]

there is more than meets the eye- powerful forces are involved in this and the stakes are high -

Why did Raila summon Gitobu imanyara and tried to tell him to try kill the no confidence motion?

Raila knows something -

But I wonder what investigations are necessary when Kimunya has clearly violated 3 laws - public ethics act, procurement and disposal act,privatization act -

By appearing to be protecting kimunya kibaki and raila are messing big time they should read the mood of the country and let Kimunya go, much as they may be involved in the scams - they should fire him in public as some sort of PR to Kenyans ,but the more the embattled kimunya stays in office the more the govt image gets dented.

[Plot 10]

Kwanza tuanze na smaki ambaya ako ndani ya nyavu,that's the problem with many investigations, we worry about too many people that we even forget the one we had actually nailed and the whole thing is a big mess. Stop worrying about Raila and kibaki here, kenyans are going to watch their actions. Once we have taken care of the fish in the net, it will spill beans if it wishes to and the big fishes will be umasked. For now, lets nail this one, and the rest will follow.

/No offence to fish eaters

[Tactician]

I think we are missing some key legal and factual points here which affect the public tendering rules and why Kimunya did not follow them.

One - The Grand Regency Hotel (GRH) was not public property. It was Pattn's property. Here is the explanation.

Pattni owned Exchange bank. Exchange Bank owed CBK KShs 2.5 billion and did not pay up. As in any normal transaction, CBK secured a charge over the GRH which the Pattni/Exchange Bank owned. That's why there was a CBK receiver at the GRH. If GRH was built using public money, CBK could not have placed a charge over it - ie how can u charge a property u already own?

Two - the valuation of GRH does NOT matter in this case. All CBK could recover from the sale of GRH was the amount of the charge over the hotel which in this case is KShs 2.5 billion.

Even if CBK had sold it for KShs 100 billion, all CBK would get was KShs 2.5 billion. The difference would have gone to Pattni. Otherwise, CBK would be benefitting from the misfortune of Pattni's bankruptcy. That is the law

This is why we hear of people complaining about mortgages when they default. A guy has a house worth KShs 5 million but he owes a mortgage institution (HFCK for eg) KShs 1 million which he has defaulted in paying. The mortgage institution (bank) has a charge over the house. To recover its money, it sells the house for KShs 1.1 million yet the property is worth 5 times that amount. The owner (Borrower) is left asking WHY ?

Cos the bank is onley owed KShs 1 million. It does not care about how much the property is worth. If it sells the house for Kshs 5 million, it has to refund the KShs 4 m diff to the owner. To get this 5 m, the bank has to wait for time before it can get a buyer willing to pay that value. And of cos the bank cant just wait to get this buyer just to recover KShs 1 million - so it goes for the quickest buyer at KShs 1m fire sale.

If the law allowed the bank to sell the KShs 5m charged property for Kshs 5m and then keep all the KShs 5m, all banks would do is to wait for borrowers to repay 90% of the loan then unilaterally declare the borrower bankrupt. Then they profit - in this case, the bank would make a profit of KShs 4m (Kshs 5 million which is the value less the amount owed of KShs 1 million) and profit from the foreclosure.

Three - There is the accusation that Kimunya did not follow the pubic procurement and disposal rules. That is true. On that he is guilty of not following the letter of the law.

But lets look at the spirit of the law. The law requires that the Privatisation Committee do a tender of the property (GRH) so that it can get the best price.

In this case, even if the Privatisation Committee had recommended and executed an auction or even did an IPO of the Grand Regency, how much money would CBK have recovered from the sale? Exactly KShs 2.5 billion. No more. In fact, had the auction/IPO got proceeds of less than KShs 2.5 billion, CBK would have lost money on the deal.

So in fact, had the GRH been auctioned to the highest bidder or sold via an IPO and got lets say KShs 7.5 billion, the govt would have only recovered Kshs 2.5 billion and given the diff to Pattni. So why go through all these procedures just to benefit Pattni or run the risk of selling the hotel for less than the charged amount? Especially when u have a ready buyer who is ready and willing to immediately pay the required KShs 2.5 billion?

So Kimunya simply followed common sense. The only problem is that he seems not to have informed his cabinet colleagues - but as time passes, we now hear he has challenged Raila, Wako and Ringera to deny - something they have yet to do.

If I was Kimunya, I would sit tight and let the facts come out - otherwise right now MPs are just doing mob justice! not forgetting they dont want to pay taxes!