[missed call]

if there is a ministry that we should b able to see alot of maendeleo at the end of the season, it should b raila's. because its a major new thing that hasnt been there. he should concentrate on developments and forget his selfish politics against grand opposition.

[Jalejo]

Originally Posted by missed call

raila has been opposing all the govts, whether he is part of it or not. yet he doesnt want his govt to be opposed. what plans does he have without the opposition? why does he want to run a govt with no checks? who has been the number one opposer of everything in kenya if not him? shame, shame, shame on u raila. run ur office and leave the other mps. whether they form a grand opposition or not is not ur biz! play ur part to give kenya ur promises.
i have said again and again, that raila is an idi-amini replica, with intensified selfish dictatorship.

pple like showing their illiteracy n ignorance in mashada, when coalition govt was formed, it was btwn odm n pnu not btwn individuals in odm n individuals in pnu, wen ur party is part of coalition govt u cant be in opposition.its a simple principle of party politics.ull neva find some republicans being in oposition or labour mps in uk being in oposition, once a member of a party in govt, ur in. if u want 2 b in oposition, resign n be re-elected in another party's name n be an oposition leader.

[mkenya asili]

Originally Posted by Jalejo

pple like showing their illiteracy n ignorance in mashada, when coalition govt was formed, it was btwn odm n pnu not btwn individuals in odm n individuals in pnu, wen ur party is part of coalition govt u cant be in opposition.its a simple principle of party politics.ull neva find some republicans being in oposition or labour mps in uk being in oposition, once a member of a party in govt, ur in. if u want 2 b in oposition, resign n be re-elected in another party's name n be an oposition leader.

Let them all resign. about 60 or so MPs and we see who becomes prime minister. according the acoord the prime minister is the one with majority but not elected as president.... wacheni wa step down halafu tuone.....bado mapambano

[missed call]

Originally Posted by Jalejo

pple like showing their illiteracy n ignorance in mashada, when coalition govt was formed, it was btwn odm n pnu not btwn individuals in odm n individuals in pnu, wen ur party is part of coalition govt u cant be in opposition.its a simple principle of party politics.ull neva find some republicans being in oposition or labour mps in uk being in oposition, once a member of a party in govt, ur in. if u want 2 b in oposition, resign n be re-elected in another party's name n be an oposition leader.

make sure u know what u r talking about. dont listen to gutter press!

[Nattz]

Originally Posted by mak&emoto

Watch this space,
let the official opposition bill be made into law, all those rookie MPs jostling for the perks will sign on the dotted line to become members and they will automatically lose their parliamentary seats.

If you doubt me, remember that both the Speaker and Deputy speaker are from ODM. You must walk the talk.

How comes the speaker has said he doesnt see issues in forming the opposition and that MPs dont have resign from their parties - the house rules bars no one - besides, the law is very explicit on the issue - the only issue is tabling a motion in parliament on modalities so i also dont see why Raila should have any business telling MPs how to go about it, as they said, they owe their allegiance to Kenyans, especially their constituents first and else comes a distant second ( as they put it)

[dynamite]

Firstly, and paramount, we need an opposition. We have fought for too long, made too many sacrifices as Kenyans and seen too much growth in democtartic freedoms to forsake the need for a political opposition. The role of the opposition will be to put the Executive in check, propose alternative approaches, deepen the democratic rights to expression, to critic and to challenge the Executives actions. Without an opposition we would not have known of Goldenburg, Angloleasing, the Atur brothers. And more over Raila would not have had an opportunity to hone his abilities if he was not providing an alternative voice to the government of the day.

Having said that, the issue is how do we incorporate an opposition within the current grand coalition government. My take is that the converse should be allowed to happen, if an MP can join the government without loosing his seat, then an MP should be able to join the opposition without loosing their seat. Its that simple.

For some reason stalwarts in the fight for democracy tend to avoid having opposition to themeselves once in Government. This is wrong. Let the MPs formalize a position of organizied opposition to the Government. It is healthy, it is right, and will provide a counterbalance to the actions of the members of the executive.

[missed call]

Originally Posted by dynamite

Firstly, and paramount, we need an opposition. We have fought for too long, made too many sacrifices as Kenyans and seen too much growth in democtartic freedoms to forsake the need for a political opposition. The role of the opposition will be to put the Executive in check, propose alternative approaches, deepen the democratic rights to expression, to critic and to challenge the Executives actions. Without an opposition we would not have known of Goldenburg, Angloleasing, the Atur brothers. And more over Raila would not have had an opportunity to hone his abilities if he was not providing an alternative voice to the government of the day.

Having said that, the issue is how do we incorporate an opposition within the current grand coalition government. My take is that the converse should be allowed to happen, if an MP can join the government without loosing his seat, then an MP should be able to join the opposition without loosing their seat. Its that simple.
For some reason stalwarts in the fight for democracy tend to avoid having opposition to themeselves once in Government. This is wrong. Let the MPs formalize a position of organizied opposition to the Government. It is healthy, it is right, and will provide a counterbalance to the actions of the members of the executive.

i believe they have an ok from the speaker, and the only thing remaining is to exercise their muscles on the floor, arguing about the positions of commas, dots, buts, caps and sections ... while IDPs die and petrol prices gets to 120.

[teejay]

Originally Posted by missed call

u have to understand that the reason raila is against the grand opposition is not coz of its legal or constitutional technicalities, but simply because "... they are leaving us whereas we need a strong odm in the house ..". why allow such selfishness to eat him up!

Come on brother. Selfishness is way out of question. A man with a historical background like Raila can hardly be described in such an undeserving manner. Tell me of anyone who has gone through a tumultuous lifetime and still have the will power to move like him. 8 years is no joke a time to spend in cold dungeons. All these because of opposing oppressive regimes. It was not in his own interest that he was doing this but for the whole country.

I have disagreed with Raila on many an issues and I have also agreed with him on others but on this one I think most of us have lost Raila. A keen observer of the Political scene must have discerned something. The marriage between ODM and PNU is very sour and there is simmering row underground. Ababu's hold on the Grand Opposition proposal, could as well be the Premiers making, to act as an exit strategy as the last resort for ODM.

Ababu is a smart guy and he knows what he is doing. This is one man who has been an Admirer of Raila and most articles I have read from him regarding Raila are loudly devoid of any betrayal tendencies. Even if he wanted to betray Raila, what is there for him? Considering that he is coming from western kenya, ODM's stronghold, isn't the guy committing Political suicide? Note that The PM's homecoming party (HCP)where he is reported to have met delegates from as far as Turkana, deliberately coincided with the GO talks. Budalang'i, Ababu's constituency neighbours Dr. Otuoma's backyard where another HCP in honour of the latter took place. The elder's (Budalang'i)silence on the issue is quite telling; am sure they were represented in the bash. None of them have publicly admonished Ababu neither Raila.

Raw information reaching me now reports that Bill Ruto now supports the idea of a GO. This could be signs that things are thick between PNU and ODM. Ruto has been advocating that amnesty be extended to those who were (selectively) arrested over the PEV(Post-Elections Violence), while PNU is adamant that no such thing will happen, but are at the same time favouring Mungiki. This is made worse by that fact after both Kibaki and Raila visited the IDPs there was a general consensus that they would return and chat a way forward in an all inclusive meeting with wazees in RV, but soon after that Kibaki has reneged and is now quickly resettling the IDPs amidst a myriad of problems. ODM has read mischief in this and we are quickly gravitating to a point where we may soon see standoff between PM and thief Kibaki.

The PM himself on Monday reiterated the need for a new constitution within a span of 1 year. Was he telling us something we don't know? We know very well that these are contained in the National Accord and there was no need for him to remind us about it. The message coming out of this could mean that PNU is trying to brush it aside.

There is also the issue of financing of the OPM. The USA recently directly channeled 30m to that office with a purpose of helping that office settle down to work. This caused jitters within the PNU rank and file. They must be looking for a way to cut the PM to size.

All the above to me conspire and are good enough reasons for the PM to order his footsoldiers into action. Hence Ababu's insistence.

[mak&emoto]

Originally Posted by Nattz

How comes the speaker has said he doesnt see issues in forming the opposition and that MPs dont have resign from their parties - the house rules bars no one - besides, the law is very explicit on the issue - the only issue is tabling a motion in parliament on modalities so i also dont see why Raila should have any business telling MPs how to go about it, as they said, they owe their allegiance to Kenyans, especially their constituents first and else comes a distant second ( as they put it)

What the speaker said if you followed keenly is that anything is possible so long as the law is changed.

So, the MPs can even up their game and amend the constitution to appoint Ababu Namwamba as the Official Opposition Leader for Life!

Remember, an opposition is not necessarily an official opposition.

These MPs know very well that a parliamentary coalition is formed among parties and by the party leadership, so again, ask yourself how exactly are they going to takeover the leadership of their respective parties and use those positions to sign the proposed coalition agreement that will need to be entered into?

Anyway, considering that none of these MPs will want to resign to seek a fresh mandate, ODM will remain assured of its theoretical numerical majority, Raila's tenure as PM will remain stable. So rest assured that the move by the MPs will be still born.

[manvikta]

Ababu acted silly during the swearing in ceremony...and so it is time he redeemed himself by holding his ground. If he backs down...it will be fair to say that democracy is dead.
Why is an opposition so much feared? Au they want to keep their committee perks and all?
Grand Opposition should be formed with shadow ministers. E.g Local Government should have a non-ODM shadow minister...etc.