[msema ukweli Kabisa]

I think the premise of the threads mainly has to do with this following points

1. Women rights
2. women empowerment
3. women social economic well being
4. women health standards

In my opinion, its very easy to want to blame man for all problems that face women, but I think the lack of women progress in Kenya is very multifacated. And regic hit one pointer very well, EDUCATION

Studies have shown educating a girl child goes way further in empowering women, secondly flimsy laws and lack of enforcement is another part that ills the kenyan society.

For example the physical abuse of women is taken very lightly in Kenya. There are laws that are meant to protect women but they are rarely enforced

Third in my opinion there should also be laws for child support, well regulated and enforcable. I really love the child support laws here in the US, whereby a man will be thrown to prison for lack of child support, and warrants are even put out for defaulters. I shudder when I remember close relatives who abandoned families and never held to account regarding the upbringing of their kids to a point the kids and the mum were homeless for sometime.

And finally when it comes to health reproductive policies, Kenya has made alot of headway, Kenya was one few developing countries which was able to not only educate rural women about reproductive rights during the ujamii clinic era,
read this interesting paper I once studying back in college

Reproductive rights among women in Kenya.


PS- you note that I totally deviated from regular man bashing that sometimes derail legitimate discussions regarding women rights,

And if you ask me why am so interested in the discussion, I will tell you, I have a mother, two sisters, A niece and fiancee and one day hopefully a daughter that will be able to benefit good policy decisions

[Real Talk]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

Not having options such as education is a good excuse but not enough.

I believe I should have been more specific in what was meant by my use of the term "education"..

I wasn't refering to the term in the tradition sense, but knowledge and/or insight into better options for disempowered women to follow.

I strongly feel that woman you refered to was indeed exposed to better options, therefore prompting her to feel comfortable enough to leave her situation in search for a better future that could have easily taken a turn for the worst....its the risk that she took, for her kids, that many of the women in similar situation cannot take.

In tackling that issue, we can come closer to better answers..

[Sanaa-]

Originally Posted by Real Talk

I believe I should have been more specific in what was meant by my use of the term "education"..

I wasn't refering to the term in the tradition sense, but knowledge and/or insight into better options for disempowered women to follow.

I strongly feel that woman you refered to was indeed exposed to better options, therefore prompting her to feel comfortable enough to leave her situation in search for a better future that could have easily taken a turn for the worst....its the risk that she took, for her kids, that many of the women in similar situation cannot take.

In tackling that issue, we can come closer to better answers..

Yes, I understand that kind of an education.. but tell me one thing, do you need exposure to know that you need to fight for your life and your kids? Do you need exposure to know that sex results in pregnancy? Where is that natural will or instinct to survive by escaping a dangerous environment? This woman by the way was not exposed to better options, she simply used her common sense to run for her life and her kids and cross the bridge of feeding and surviving when she got there.

I also noticed that such women who sleep with cheating/abusive husbands even when lifted from those environments, it takes a very long time to condition their brains to follow a certain productive way of thinking.

[Sanaa-]

Msema Ukweli, if a law that made it possible to imprison men who don't pay child support in Kenya was enforced, we would need alot of prisons because as it is, even feeding themselves is a problem for some of these men.


I heard there was a police unit exclusively female called spider (or some creature) aren't they doing their job?

[Real Talk]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

do you need exposure to know that you need to fight for your life and your kids? Do you need exposure to know that sex results in pregnancy? Where is that natural will or instinct to survive by escaping a dangerous environment?

Point well taken, however what incentive lies there in searching if you , your mother and the women in your community living the same reality only know how to cope with the situation, with little to no encounter to others who have deviated from the norm?

[msema ukweli Kabisa]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

Msema Ukweli, if a law that made it possible to imprison men who don't pay child support in Kenya was enforced, we would need alot of prisons because as it is, even feeding themselves is a problem for some of these men.


I heard there was a police unit exclusively female called spider (or some creature) aren't they doing their job?

the fear of punishment would be sufficient for this fathers,

by the way very interesting topic going on a radio station called Diane rehms show on NPR, you can find it online

wamu.org/programs/dr/

talking about domestic abuse in the US

[okiedokes]

Originally Posted by Sanaa-

Yes, I understand that kind of an education.. but tell me one thing, do you need exposure to know that you need to fight for your life and your kids? Do you need exposure to know that sex results in pregnancy? Where is that natural will or instinct to survive by escaping a dangerous environment? This woman by the way was not exposed to better options, she simply used her common sense to run for her life and her kids and cross the bridge of feeding and surviving when she got there.

I also noticed that such women who sleep with cheating/abusive husbands even when lifted from those environments, it takes a very long time to condition their brains to follow a certain productive way of thinking.

Sanaa...one can argue one way or the other whether one needs exposure or not. But the truth of the matter is that domestic violence affects women from all works of life. Some people have support systems, others don't. Some people grow up in abusive situations(hence that's their sense of normal) while others don't but still end up in abusive relationships. It is very complex, so tying it just to education is rather too simple. All it takes is choosing the wrong partner.

But when you leave the abusive partner and he/she hasn't learnt the skills to cope with their controlling nature, they will just go on to abuse future partners.

We need to make domestic violence counselling centres more accessible. For most places, you need to be referred there by the court, but there needs to be a system where someone can get help before they ever abuse someone.

[mycalian]

Sanaa the problem is that your level of understanding and education is not the same with that of such women who make decisions without second thought.

Another thing is that Love is Blind and that is the reason many ladies will date married men and they know. Also money is a very important factor to consider when looking at such an issue since once a lady in trouble see free bucks, she will easily drop her pants.

[Nyabera]

Sanaa,
Empowerment is still a long way from the rural woman. Imagine living in a rural area with a rural mindset. Stuff like "a woman's place is in the kitchen" is continually preached by men and women alike. Throw in teachers who believe that, and are not motivated to open the eyes of their charges to possibilities in life.
Both the boys and the girls are poorer for not knowing that there are other ways of doing things. BTW cases of girls dropping out of school in the rural areas to get married are more common than you think. Do you think this girl, now a grown woman with a few toddlers around would even think that there is a choice as far as having children is concerned. Let alone, leave an abusive husband who went through the same system, is probably "uneducated" as well and unemployed?

One needs exposure, social support and very strong belief in oneself to do things outside the generally accepted way of doing things in a community. Think FGM and other harmful practices, yes people know they cause more harm than good but people continue taking part in them in spite of knowing this. Why?

[fry]

Sanaa,

From my observations I've gathered many women go to church (in rural and peri-urban Kenya) simply because their parents did. They are basically conservatives and already have a template of what a married woman should be. Who are they to change the status quo? Even if they engage in 'unchristian' acts, their conscience always leads them to church.

At church they have a sense of belonging and vestiges of power. They determine what food will be cooked, how weddings and funerals will be planned, who sings in the choir, who decorates what, when and how home visits will go. Even if they have no say at home, church is the one place they will be considered if not rule. I know of a church where the women decide who will preach.

Indoctrination. No amount of education and exposure can free these women from what they've heard at church since their childhood. For example, the average Kenyan home has those awful kenyan traditional gospel choir music somewhere as well as an Esther Wahome, Rose Muhando which is played on Sundays and public holidays. They may not like the music but it has to be played since it was always played.

Whatever happens at church is carried over into the home where the virtues taught at Sunday School must be adhered to...no matter what. They know that they must persevere through trials because the Lord is their refuge fortress and shield. It is always His will. He fights ALL their battles.

And their children? They inherently believe that their children MUST have a father figure, as family must be complete. Many of their children are borne out of passion and they would never contemplate the morning after pill. Besides the traditional norms state that children are blessings who will deliver them when in their sunset years.

So, it's really a complex issue which evolves...it'll never be eradicated, but evolve as even the 'modern' woman sometimes acts 'irrationally'.