Quote:
Originally Posted by grip_daddy
Ndigila,
This post seek to reason that the Church of God has always been protected, preserved, and honoured by God since creation. It also seek to point out that the Church is not a physical organisation but rather a collection of individual believers whose sole intention is to keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Your response is highly anticipated.
But as years went by and all the apostles finally died, together with the fact that non Jews from diverse backgrounds were coming into the Church, strange doctrines creeped in slowly. Some of these doctrines included worship on behalf of the dead, infant baptism, mass, and forsaking of Sabbath observance.
But all believers did not embrace the strange doctrines.
The few who rejected to follow pagan practices were persecuted, killed, tortured, and their families arrested. It reached a point where even possession of the bible by layman was illegalised which offence meant death penalty.
These few persecuted for their faith were the true church. They ran into the wilderness for refuge (see Revelation 12) and when the persecutor's prophesied period was over, they again emerged as the true witnesses of God, to obey the first angel's message, and to speak with a loud voice "fear God and give Him glory, for the hour of His judgment has come".
The church of God all through the ages, from Adam to present, has always been the remnant, "who have the testimony of Jesus, and keep the commandments of God."Revelation 12:17.
The children of Israel, as Paul said, are those who have been circumcised at heart ever since. Those whose hopes and faith have been manifested in continual honour of God's laws and will in life, speech, and deed are the true church in whom the promise of Christ holds.
When relying on tradition it is important to know that even the Jews acquired traditions over time of which distinguishing from the commandments of God became a problem. When Jesus told them that they were teaching the traditions of men for doctrine, they got angry with Him. The same can be said about many churches as are seen today.
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Grip, I've heard this very many times. I even defended it when I was protestant, however it has many loopholes.
There is no historical evidence of this "remnant" of people who didn't submit to the "Pagan Church." The only historical evidence of those who were condemned as heretics were those who rejected the Tradition of the church.
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "worship on behalf of the dead." But anyway, Grip, to prove that a particular doctrine has a pagan origin, you have to show a historical evidence of a change. For instance, if you think that the sacraments were of pagan origin, you need to go back to say, the 100s and show that the Orthodox church didn't have sacraments. You can't say the church fell into paganism because you have a personal doctrinal disagreement with it.
Why are the remnant trusting the pagan's church decision on the Christian canon? The New Testament canon was not as obvious as people claim. The Apocalypse of Paul almost made it in place of the Apocalypse of John. Other disputed books were 2 Peter, Hebrews and Jude. Books that almost made it were the Shepherd of Hermas, the Didache and the Epistle of Barnabas. If the remnant really distrusts this church, it follows that they shouldn't trust their canon. At least Martin Luther was honest and removed some books of the Old Testament. You know Martin Luther tried to have much of the New Testament removed, especially the Book of James because of the whole "faith without works is dead" issue.