[Msoto]

Great responses from everyone.

I think I may have been too cryptic in what I was trying to explain.

Lets start again...my first premise is that what I define as "free-will" is not the same as what God defines as "free-will". This is because my definition of "free-will" is limited by my limited sentience....My limited knowing...limits my complete and total description of what free-will is.

God on the other hand is NOT limited....He has no limited sentience...no limits in knowing...thus He can describe "free-will" more completely than I can...by virtue of having greater sentience and 'greater knowing' than I do.

Therefore In His (God's) description of what is "free-will", how can I be certain that it doesn't include "pre-destiny"? My limited sentience sees these terms as diverging...however God with infinite Knowledge may see these concepts as converging.

I like Mwananchi's argument because...he shows that just because it has been ordained what will come to pass. Does not mean that you as individual know that your options are limited. This is the key...that you as a human being have no way of knowing for certain that your options are limited. God's LIMITS are not Man's LIMITS...if he has any.

In saying that your options are LIMITED you PRESUME that you can UNDERSTAND and PINPOINT what God's LIMITS are...can you as a christian who believes God is omniscient and you aren't?

ATLian's argument assumes that what God Ordains is limited to happen in a pattern recognizable as human beings to be "limited" and thus we will be able to define it as "pre-destined" rather than "free-willed".

However as I said before if God is omniscient and man isnt.
Then you are not in any position to justify how one cannot be "pre-destined" and "free-willed" at the same time. Since you are using your LIMITED sentience to analyse the workings of a NON-LIMITED being.

How can someone use a 1M ruler to measure an infinite distance?