[satjas]

Hey Msoto

>As coach did say you have a non healthy fixation against
>muslims and islam.

yep, and you just wait till the sharia law becomes your law or they kill all your family right infront of you in the name of allah.........you think Hitler was bad? He got elected democratically, was popular and a good orator, oh and he was a Christian too, right Msoto??? What took the world so long as to let millions of jews killed for no reason???? But I repeat, I have no problems with muslims, in fact a have many good muslim friends, but islam begs many questions

> Christians live according to the bible now
>if you want to be gay...the tenets which is what the bible
>says are very clear about this subject.

Oh yeah , the bible is very clear on alot of things.....here we see the bible saying these people are worthy of death.......a mild way of saying, kill them!!!


"For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness,: full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgement of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Rom. 1:23-32


> If you want to be
>gay...continue being gay dont rationalize to us why you are
>also a christian they are incompatible.

I am neither, yet i don't see why being gay cannot make one a good christian. Do you really think that God only communicates with Christians and Muslims? Do you guys put your bibles before God Almighty?????


>Look the bible and in fact even the koran insists that people
>not ascribed to the religion or the faith should not be judged
>by it. A muslim practicing islam will choose not to associate
>with gays that is his/her prerogative.

That sounds true, hypothetically speaking......but reality, hello Msoto, speaks otherwise. Try taking your Bible to saudi arabia and see if you will not be judged by your faith.

>God gives every one of His creations free will. We all choose
>how to live if you choose to be gay that is your choice.

Then how do you explain this same God condemning people who have chosen by their own free will to be gay??? Why Give someone freewill and then set down rules that undermine that same freewill. I tell you Msoto you have not yet understood what freewill means. Try reading it as two seperate words.......

> We as
>religious believers cannot hold a position of attempting to
>understand beyond our faculties which is what you are
>attempting.

that is why when one does not want to think or understand by falsely concluding that it is beyond their faculty that NO Growth or development occurs...hence the term retard-to hold back development. This is in your own words Msoto, please do not attempt at a future date to say otherwise. I am attempting what God has given me the freewill to do....and so do you have the same choice. You don't want to go that route, I do, is there a problem with that????

>We don't know God's actions and why He does them
>thus commenting on them and their reasons is in vain and
>futile.

No, we know God's actions, we know there are tsunamis and earthquakes and pedophiles and rapists all behaving according to God's plan. However we may not know the REASON for God's actions. There is a difference you know. The day you understand that a butterfly flapping its wings in Mexico has contributed to the tsunami in Thailand you will know what i am talking about.

> Our inferior minds cannot comprehend it.

You feel that way whereas I think our minds are far too superior that we have barely started using them all these millenia. Our thought process here is different.

>You are free
>to ascribe to a different faith stance however dont tell
>christians how they should be christians when you arent one.
>Thanks.

How do you know that i am/am-not a christian?? A good christian is one who follows what Jesus said to do and not one who follows the bible and certainly not one who follows christianity. Msoto, Jesus did not bring Christianity to this world. He reminded us about common sense. In fact Jesus was an anti-religious figure.


>Who said that when we listening to verses we dont think? We
>merely believe what the verses hold are true.

Msoto, you yourself said above that your inferior mind cannot comprehend it....now what more do you want me to say??? Isn't that exactly what i meant?????

> And
>psychologically i have shown how homosexuality is
>deviance...even biologically there is no evolutionary benefit
>of this kind of behaviour.

I certainly agree that there is no evolutionary benefit......HANG ON, how can the Christian in you dare mention evolutionary theories here????!?!?!?!?!????!!!!!

> Thus I have used my reasoning
>ability to justify why homosexuality is wrong in my
>perspective as a christian.

You definately have no clue what being gay really means...........this here is what is used to justify homophobia, like " i didn't say it, my religion tells me so" . Surely you must be beyond this bigotry Msoto? an educated person like yourself???

>Now if you choose to view it as
>right...please do so...however dont trample on my faith
>because you dont like it. I'm sorry my faith is what it is and
>if it cannot accomodate to your radical ideas then adopt your
>own faith that would do so.

Exactly, that is why you guys are so sorry because there is jack you can do about it.......common sense ceases to prevail. You feel trampled? doesn't your faith give you some kinda superhuman strength? Will you pray to God to give you strength and destroy disbelievers like me? Or are you sorry that you feel trampled? A person or Idea of strength never feels sorry or trampled, it stands out for itself!!!!!

>If someone gives any argument to support how "homosexuality"
>should be accepted and not frowned upon they are speaking
>logically.
>I wonder what the extent comments i wrote about...all this
>time i thought they were logical.
>I'm sorry they could not fit into your fine thread of
>suitability.

Hey Msoto when will you stop feeling sorry for yourself?? One does not accept something by disassociating oneself from it. Everything always seems logical to the one doing it.....try Harold Shipman, or Hitler for that matter.


>Stop mixing issues...this article is about homosexuality and
>religion. Yes for christians one cannot take a position that
>is tantamount to being against their stand on faith.

Here is why i say there is intolerance in religion.....now you agree.

>Thats why
>the Anglican Churck in Kenya has not endorsed the gay bishop.
>Yes that affects me as a believer that what I hold sacred is
>merely twisted to fit the societal norm....for no other valid
>scientific reason as to why homosexuality is anything but
>deviance.

By the way it was not long ago that crazy things were happening in the christian world because someone suggested the earth was round and that it was not the epicentre of the universe as they knew it. People died. Then they came up with scientific reasons. People died. Msoto, please don't let more people die?????at least not of ignorance??????

> That peturbs me greatly and questions validity of
>the strength of the faith I ascribe to.

Hmm.....does it now really? you get sleepless nights and no food on the table and it makes your faith weak? shift faith....see a shrink....Check out the Ultimate shrink...God, communicate directly with Him/Her......then you'll not be mentally disturbed or peturbed...i guess then the next point of call is being...retarded???

>Thats why
>christian/muslim faith will not tolerate homosexuality. Just
>because society is accepting does not mean that is acceptable
>religiously.

Now there's a good lad, No Tolerance whatsoever, why then go into all this hoohaa and try and come lashing out when this is exactly what i was talking about????

>Now again stop brandishing people who hold a different
>perspective from yours as retards?

Please try and understand that being a retard means to inhibit growth.....i said religion is for those who do not want to grow......religion doesn't allow one to think from outside the box. If 1 is being ignorant and 10 is being super knowledgeable, let's say at 5 religion retards further absorption of knowledge. Now a mentally retarded person on this scale would be 0.

> Do you think that
>condescending statement will change religious
>adherents....Infact I hope it bolsters their faith and
>resolve.

Oh yes i bet it will.....people generally believe that when 'bad' things are happening to them that God is 'testing' them and their resolve. That then makes this God appear wanting. But I ask you msoto, what doth God need that He have not????

>Since when did you become the custodian of truths to
>be able to pass judgement as to what each person is?

To observe a situation is not to pass a judgement on it. To observe that religious bigotry, as you have so well proved, exists is merely a loud observation.
I am the custodian of my truths. Have no fear that my truths may appear greater than yours....or even lesser, know only that i am the custodian of mine as are you of yours. Yet also acknowledge that no observation can be passed without a reference point. At the instant the reference point is introduced a judgement is passed. That my friend is the divine dichotomy. In the realm of the absolute, there is no reference for all there is is all there is, nothing else. When you get to that point you'll be at One with All There Is. That is where I am, that is where you can choose to be. If at any time before in your life you have never really spoken to God, know now that you have. If mountains can be moved and seas parted then God is also capable of using the internet. When you become the custodian of Truth you will also know that it is impossible to pass judgement on each person because 'each' does not exist. We are ALL ONE. There is no 'Other'.

-the paradim shifter.....God's friend through whom God has spoken to you.


The soul is that which beholds beauty even when the mind denies it.