RE: Moses, Jesus......& Christianity -
02-19-2006, 05:32 AM
The Quran says......
(5.18) And the Jews and the Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say: Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.
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Thank you for clarifying that Coach. Allah is the name for God, the same way Mungu is also God. So it's a cache 22 argument here.
Now in regards to whether Abraham was Muslim or Christian... He was more a Jew than both so no point arguing here. From Abraham came Isaac and Ishmael. The christians believed that Isaac was the legitimate older son of Abraham because Ishmael was born through the slave. Isaac bore so and so who bore so and so....etc and then came Jesus.
On the other hand, since Muslims believe that the first son is always the first son whether illegitimate or not, we follow Ishmael. If you knew your history then you would know that Ishmael's descendants lived in the valley of Kedar according to the bible, which today is Saudi Arabia. If you look at what the bible says about Kedar....
[7] All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory.
(I.E. MECCAN PILGRIMAGE AT THE END OF WHICH MUSLIMS SLAUGHTER AN ANIMAL THAT OCCURES AT THE AL-KAABA, THE HOLY HOUSE OF GOD TO MUSLIMS)
So for those who wanted proof that the descendants of Islam are also from Abraham, there it is attested from your own book!
As to whether Jesus was Muslim or Christian. The word Christian means "follower of Christ" so I don't think Jesus was a Christian and neither was Abraham because how can you follow yourself or how can you follow someone who came after your time?? The Quran says
( NB: Followers of the book means Jews and Christians while Taurat and Injeel mean Torah and Bible)
(3.65) O followers of the Book! why do you dispute about Ibrahim, when the Taurat and the Injeel were not revealed till after him; do you not then understand?
On the other hand, the word Islam means to submit i.e. submitting to God. So since Abraham and Christians both submitted to God then I would assume that they are both more Muslim than christian. Essentially, we are all submitters to God as we surrender our lives to Him (spiritually speaking, not suicide bombers here).
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Whether they are christian, Muslim, Jew or whatsoever, what matters is that they called for worshipping ONE God, not three, ten or eleven. We are all monetheistic religions. To quote directly from the Quran...
(3.64) Say: O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims.
(5.19) O followers of the Book! indeed Our Apostle has come to you explaining to you after a cessation of the (mission of the) apostles, lest you say: There came not to us a giver of good news or a warner, so indeed there has come to you a giver of good news and a warner; and Allah has power over all things.
(5.59) Say: O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?
And so many more verses as Allah (God) being all knowing, new a day would come when such problems between the religions would arise would arise.
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Christians may cast us off, Jews may cast us off but we believe in the same God and all this is NOT a matter coincidence or falsified facts. There is only one valley of Kader and one prophet named Abraham so why dispute? We believe Jesus was born of a virgin just like the Quran says...
(3.45) When the angels said: O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).
(3.46) And he shall speak to the people when in the cradle and when of old age, and (he shall be) one of the good ones.
(3.47) She said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
(3.48) And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel. [Torah and Bible]
(3.49) And (make him) an apostle to the children of Israel: That I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I determine for you out of dust like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird with Allah's permission and I heal the blind and the leprous, and bring the dead to life with Allah's permission and I inform you of what you should eat and what you should store in your houses; most surely there is a sign in this for you, if you are believers.
The prophet Mohammed (PBUH) did NOT borrow this from other religions. When these verses were revealed, he had never been educated on ANY of the other religions as the Arab world was then pagan. So how do you explain the accuracy with names etc with the old testament? So this is DEFINITELY no coincidence. We are one big family. We may not be happy about it but we are still the same, though not identical.
Unlike Christianity, to Muslims, Isa (Jesus) and Ibrahim (Abraham) were sent to specific people (Jews) and Mohammed (PBUH) was sent to whole of humanity as was mentioned by someone else before in the thread. The other difference between Muslims and christians (which is a major difference) is that we do not believe in the trinity as God to us does not beget, nor is he begotten.
In one of the phrases in the Quran it says...
(9.30) And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
(9.31) They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).
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