>please confirm the version that you are using cause I cant
>find some verse in my Bibles and even in
>
http://bible.gospelcom.net/
TO be presice its Mat 24:40-41 and also luke 17:34-36
>Personally most people I have listened to use 1 Thes 4:16-17
>(below) to show that believers who will be alive when the Lord
>returns will be 'caught up together in the clouds'
>For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud
>command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet
>call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After
>that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up
>together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
>And so we will be with the Lord forever. 1 Thes 4:16-17
You see what you have said above actaully refutes the rapture theory. You can see that in those passages you have quoted there is no any element of secracy as the advocates or rapture theory seem to emphasize. They show an event that is impossible to miss; an even that is endowed with surprise and spectacle.
>From what I have read in the books and watched the movie
>...all I can deduce is that the author says that the rupture
>occurs before the great tribulation.
Which is also wrong. Acording to the bible Christians are taken to heaven after tribulation and not before as the rapture theory seem to say. The rapture theology shows that Christ rescues his people secretly from the great tribulation and the deceptive reign of the antichrist.
Jesus himself spoke of great time of trouble before his return for his people. Mathew 24:21,29,30
24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken
24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
In Reveltion 3:10 Christ promised his church that "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth"
John Himself depicts the church emerging vicyorious from the great tribulation. "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" Rev 7:14 And John further adds "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands" Rev 7:9 This is contrary to the notiton that these are believers are jews who convert during the great tribulation.
>Just wondering aloud....can someone become a Christian without
>acknowlegding their sins and the need for a saviour AND THEN
>accepting Jesus as that saviour and LORD?
NO TM. Unfortunatley lots and lots of people think that this is the case. Have you also wondered why the church is very much at peace with the world yet we are told by Paul that all that shall leave justly shall suffer affliction from the world.The Church has stopped leaving like the bride of the most high and is rather enticed by the things of this world and therefore is fornicating with the ruler of this world,Satan. The other time we talked at length about modesty we found that if the inside is not good then the outside shall speak volumes of the rotten inside.The inside can only be righteous if Christ is indwelling within, and the outside will in turn reflect christ. I hope we all learnt one thing from the other.
>To me, if the jump
>Christ's redeemtion act on calavary.....they will just remain
>religious Christians.
True that. As matter of fact empty shells.
>I wish you you said more about 'what the Bible says' instead
>of your phrase 'It does not exist'
Please see my next post here under about rapture theology.