[Coach]

teejay,

>When you
>grew up you ate, slept and even talked Muhammad, but I teejay
>came to accept Christ and got saved. Even if I am to indulge
>you, do you think it will yield a profit? No for your human
>teachings have hardened your heart like the scribes and for
>1400 long years you have not loosened a bit. Forget about a
>different thread other than this. This where you read it,
>learn it and accept. If not am not responsible if your soul is
>not delivered. After all God has allowed us al to make
>choices. IT is up to you to make a wise choice. Step forth
>like Nicodemus and know more about the rebirth. Leap on trees
>of obstacles and get your share like Zakayo the short guy.
>Follow him who is the son of God and you shall never die.
>Through me the gracious savior has been Kind enough not to
>pass you. So heed and yield. Muhammad died and was buried but
>Christ lives. When he see one soul dismissing salvation he is
>saddened for the loss of even one soul to him is to much to
>bear.


There is a verse in the Qur'an that says..."You have your religion and I have mine". This is said when you come to a point where you tell the person that you are not EVER going to compromise your faith. I would like to take this opportunity to clear something up with you; I'm not in need of "slavation" from you for I'm CONTENT with what I have, as much as and even more than you are content with what you have. Now, since I'm not here trying to convert you but to discuss on a fora, I advice you to do the same. And please spare me the patronising remarks "Step forth...heed and yeid" because I'm not here to be preached to.




>Christ (son) talk s of Holy Spirit and he talks of God
>(father) and then He says the Him Christ and the father are
>one. How difficult is that for you to believe. I tell you that
>it is useless to accept the word of God piecemeal. Either
>believe it wholly or quit soliciting for attention from
>Christians by claiming that we (Muslims and Christians) share
>certain similar aspects of religious teachings of the word of
>God. Allah is your god Yaweh the great I AM is my God.

Jesus PBUH himseld did NOT consider himself God, why would you? Those who believe that Jesus is God state the following verse to support their claim John 10:30, John 17:22, John 1:1, John 14:9 etc. But how do you explain the Bible denying the notion of trinity...

"Why callest me good? There is none good but ONE, that is GOD" (Matthew 19:17 )

". . .for my Father is greater than I. . ." (John 14:28 )
- this shows you that Jesus is NOT God because he sees God as GREATER!


"My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." (John 7:16)
- If he is God, why is he saying that the doctrine is NOT HIS? Did he send himself?

"O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt." (Matthew 26:39 )
- If he is God, who is this "father" he is crying to?

"My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" (Matthew 27:46 )
- Again, if he is God, who is he crying to when in despair?? Himself??


Do you know about how the notion of trinity begun? Do you know about Flavius Valerius Constantius (c. 285-337 AD)? Do you know the Nicean creed? The Athanasius Creed? Please explain to us.







>Indeed the first Adam was son of God and the second
>Adam(Christ) too is son of God. In the first Adam sin came to
>this world but in the second Adam Salvation is been given to
>the world by the grace of God.


God knew that Adam (PBUH) would eat from the forbidden tree and what came to the world was NOT sin but CHOICE. That was the first time ever that a human being made a CHOICE. This is for us to learn from, not that we are carrying anything ridiculous like the "original sin" but we are made aware through the stroy of Adam PBUH that we havea choice. That our choices determines our destiny.





>Ideally speaking Christ was not of this earth and therefore
>had no earthly parent as such.

Isn't Mary the mother of Jesus? The whole world thinks that, care to share with us why you say he had no earthly parent? I know he had no PATERNAL parent and that distinguishes him, but it is false to say he had no "earthly" parent.


But teaching by the fact that
>is Christ the one who must Judge the world in the end of time,
>He was born of a woman so that He took human flesh to become
>like one of us and go through the same experience we humans
>are going through and he conquered the world. No person
>whatsoever will have any excuse on that day. The only phrase
>left for them to say will be... “Lord your judgment is true
>and just.”

If Jesus is God, why did he take on human form to "experience what humasn are going through"? Are you insinuating that God needed tp practical experience to know what humand go through? How could teh creator not know this?





For the rest of your arguments, I care less what you think of the Pope. I know what the Protestants think of him but that is a "Christian" problem.

But let me help your deluded mind telling you that the Catholics aer not in any sort of conspiracy to do evil against the "real christians" which I assume you think are part of. The Catholics spearheaded the most brutal attack on Muslims from other faiths through the Crusade. Their scholars are also responsible for the intolerance we see today through their writings from the 16th century where they depicted Islam as evil. The irony is, Saladin treated the Catholics so well that they said he must have been Christian.


I think you are also confused about the view of JESUS among the Muslims. Muslims believe that Jesus PBUH was sent to HIS peopel, the Jews. He did not spread his word outside where he lived and was sent as a saviour for them. Muslims believe in Jesus, Moses, Abraham PBUt and all the Messengers before them. They came in this order Moses, Jesus and then Muhammad PBUT. The Jews took the word of the Torah and claimed it to be the saviour, they rejected the Gospel. The Christians took the Torah and Gospel and took Jesus to be the saviour. The Muslims accepted the Torah, the Gospel and accept Muhammad PBUH as the Messenger to mankind. he is not seen as a saviour per se, but merely a Messenger. I hope this clarifies things somewhat for you.

>Demons actually acknowledge the existence of God even in the
>bible, but not at any one minute or time will they leave
>cohesively and harmoniously co exist with God’s light as
>Muhammad insinuates here from one of his evil revelations. The
>genies here are actually the ones denying the father & son
>relationship that we Christians acknowledge. It is therefore
>absolutely right for one to say that Muhammad actually
>accepted the teachings of demons rather than believe the
>teaching of the Christians he interacted with and be saved and
>baptized like the Ethiopian man the Apostle Philip preached
>to.

This is a petty position generally held by the less endowed idnividuals amongst the occidental Christians. The wittier ones try to undermine teh character of the Prophet or other doctrines.

Muslims believes that humans are not the only creatures created by God. There are animals fish etc and above that, there are also some things that are unseen, the djinns. They live in a realm that is outside our perception, we believe in theri existence and that is where it ends. There are no "messages" coming from them that we take, there is no "communication" etc. But if you are keen on flogging a dead horse, keep taking the unwitty stance of vilifying anything Islamic by claiming it's the work of the devil. This usually helps TM as he is relieved of having a civil dicussion because he believes that Islam is from "anti-Christ".


>The Middle East is already tiring of endless wars. They
>will be soon so conditioned that they will accept a peacemaker
>without a second thought. Many Muslims are already saying that
>Papa Ratzi should continue the unfinished work of initiating
>peace that Karol left behind -Viva il papa well how about
>that. That even muslims believe that the pope can unite the
>world!!!

Are you on drugs mister? The Middle East conflict is a political one caused by the Christian west who want to control the oil resources. They put corrupt puppet regimes (like the new one in Baghdad or in Saudi Arabia) and support them unconditionally. They do this because they know that the people actually want an Islamic state in every Arab country. What would this lead to? This would lead to states like Iran, which are NOT controlled or are not marionettes of Washington. Thisis the fact, but I guess the church you attended tells you about a conspiracy theory which somehow includes the pope, hahahaha. This is a new one, I'll have to tell my friends about it.


>Coach the events am talking about were foreseen long ago and
>they must come to pass. I guess Muhammad did not even tell his
>followers about this eeh! The bible has predicted one event
>after another with meticulous precision. And all have and will
>come to pass.


Did the Bible predict that Chrsitianity will become opressive in Europe (dealing in slavery, colonialism etc) and will in the ned be rejected by their own people? The west has abandonned Chrsitianity for various reasons and you should be concerned about this rather than a ficticious unholy union between Muslims and Catholics.



>Again the only thing I find interesting here is you. You
>prefer to believe that catholics in their masses are all
>Christians only to make 180 degrees turn to deny the pope as
>chosen of God. If Muslims don’t believe that pope is not sent
>by God then why do you say that you (Muslims) are with the
>majority Christians? These inconsistencies in Islam amuse me.


I don't call the Catholics Christians, themselves and the whole world do. I know you are ashamed of them, but denying that they are Christians is ridiculous. Catholics and Protestants are like two sides of teh same coin; they both believe that Jesus is God.


>Vatican’s ambition
>at the moment is to unite all religions. In doing that the
>Vatican is going to be the sole headquarters of the world
>religions Muslims notwithstanding and since the pope’s word is
>infallible punishment will be invoked every time his word is
>abused. The more the call for religious unity the more that
>power of the pope grows.


I like this Matrix like stories you present here, where do you get them? Do you know what the average Muslims thinks of the Pope? Please, go around and ask. Muslims have their own plans and goals; the most important one is to claim their countries from the empirialistic occidentals who cotrol them through proxies. After that, an Islamic system will be installed where the rule of God will rule the land. These are the plans of Muslims all over the world, the Pope might have his plans, but the Muslims have theirs. And, in the coming century or so, Muslims have a higher probability of taking over and controlling Europe (incl. the Vatican) than the Vatican is over taking control of the holy cities of Mecca and Medina. If you don't believe this, then you are in one colourful illusion. Catholic churches in Europe stand empty while mosques are filled everday, but your feeble mind tells you otherwise.




>Need I
>mention the militant ones (Hisbollah, Taliban, Hamas and what
>have you) who think that by blowing themselves to smithereens
>and plunging planes into buildings while chanting Alahu Akbar,
>they obtain direct passage to heavenly bliss? And if you say
>otherwise then am also at liberty to say that your view suits
>you as whatever faction you represent in the Moslem world.


Do not mix up freedom fighters with a religion. Hizbollah and Hamas are political factions that are fighting to regain their territories. They are Muslims with varying interpretation of things. many western intellectuals actually support the Palestinian course and boycott Israel. They might not accept the methods used by Hamas, but the yunderstand that they have no Abraham tanks, F16 jets supplied by a superpower and that they use any means necessary. Taliban on the other hand is an oppressive regime. It joys me that they are removed from power, but it hurts me that they were replaced by a puppet (karzai- former UNOCAL worker) who is signing off Afghan gas fields to his masters as we speak.

But I see that you lack a lot of knowledge on global events hence buying the american line thatIslam is waging a war against the world. It is your prerogative to believe what you want, but it won't hurt if you read a thing or two to understand the whole picture.


>The bottom line is that Muhammad is not God’s messenger. And
>just because the quran which is his word says afew truths
>mingle with a couple lies does not mean that he came from God.

That pretty much sums up what you believe, and the funny part is taht I knew your stance from the beginning. So we are left with...You have your beliefs, and I have mine!" We can discuss in a civil manner and drop the anti-christ and other rhetoric, if you wish to abandon it that is.



Peace.