[Coach]

Zelda,
It is very easy for people to get out of topic. The topic at hand was Chrsitianity and the people who have had the most influence. I mentionned Paul and Augustine and offered the reasons for my choice...but satjas could not stick to the topic at hand and dragged Islam into this. TM also could not help and followed suit.


TeamManager,
I asked for what this verse means...I (and everyone else) understand it as it is meant to be understandand if there's a hidden meaning, please elucidate us...

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32. I should like you to be free of anxieties."An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.

33. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife'

34. and he is divided. An unmarried woman or a virgin is anxious about the things of the Lord, so that she may be holy in both body and spirit. A married woman, on the other hand, is anxious about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

35. I am telling you this for your own benefit, not to impose a restraint upon you, but for the sake of propriety and adherence to the Lord without distraction.
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Why is it that Paul thought married people were "distracted" in serving the Lord?







>Your wives are AS A TILTH UNTO YOU; SO APPROACH YOUR TILTH
>WHEN OR HOW YE WILL; but do some good act for your souls
>beforehand; and fear Allah. And know that ye are to meet Him
>(in the Hereafter), and give (these) good tidings to those who
>believe. S. 2:223
>WHEN or HOW?????-

Yes, when and how. If you want to copulate in the morning, noon, evening or night. You can also copulate to your taste, some prefer missionary and others are more adventerous. Off course you can see that I'm taking the liberty of explaining further what WHEN and HOW refers to. It is also explained in the same chapter that men should NOT have sex with thier women when they are menstruating and should NOT have anal sex. The same chapter (it's a long chapter with 286 verses) recommends that women suckle their children for about two years and that the fathers should provide maintenance for their family.






>In fact, the Quran encourages men to deny disobedient wives
>sex as a form of punishment, and beat them if they persist in
>disobedience:
>
>"… But chide those for whose refractoriness ye have cause to
>fear; remove them into beds apart, and SCOURGE THEM: but if
>they are obedient to you then seek not occasion against them:
>verily, God is High, Great!" S. 4:34 Rodwell


I think you missed the part where I explained all this when the question was raised. Nevertheless, I'll explain this verse once again...

The word "DARB" in Arabic (which some commentators have translated as "beat") has over 200 meanings in the Arabic language. One of the meanings of the word "darb" is also "leave alone" as a last resort when having a disagreement with the wife and all means have failed. All Muslims also try to emulate the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and he has NEVER beaten any of his wives. Some scholars translate this word to mean "beat lightly" as in some cases with a handkerchief; this is meant to be a symbolic way of showing displeasure and not a way to physically harm your wife. If you are not satisfied with this response and wish to discuss this issue further, I can provide you with tons of material that covers this issue.



>Fair in the eyes of men is the love of things THEY COVET:
>WOMEN and sons; Heaped-up hoards of gold and silver; horses
>branded (for blood and excellence); and (wealth of) cattle and
>well-tilled land. Such are the POSSESSIONS of this world's
>life; but with Allah is the best of the goals (to return to).
>S. 3:14

The word COVET means "desire" or "wish for" and this verse clearly says that the best goal (despite man loving to have a woman, children and wealth) is God. Do you disagree with this verse in anyway? Do you refute that men (humans) desire spouses, wealth and children? Do you dispute that it is better goal to plan to meet your Maker than hoard gold and silver? I don't understand what you intended by highlighting this verse.


The other sources you provided are not religious scriptures but works written by men who wrote according to their understanding. When women were given rights as humans in Islam, the Christians in the west viewed them as "less than dogs". Please initiate a thread on this issue if you wish to discuss it further, I would also provide verses from the Bible and how women are viewed.

Christians also believe that humans were kicked out of paradise because Eve tempted Adam with an apple (or a forbidden fruit) and ever since have been viewed as the reason why we are on earth suffering. The notion of original sin ahs led to women being viewed in Christianity as the channel the devil uses to get to men. This is a very interesting issue that I'd like to look further into...please initiate a thread where we can look deeper into the issue. Also the punishment of a rapist in the Bible is to be sentenced to marry the woman he raped...why is a woman punished by marrying her rapist?

"If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 22:28)"