[Coach]

>Hey Coach et all,
>
>>Jeez! This wasn't meant for you to disect and critisize. The
>>man lived thousands of years ago.


I said this in a light-hearted manner but it seems to have come across as belittling your views. My intentions were to SHARE with you those views, I didn't say I AGREE with them or DISAGREE with them. Also, I haven't heard the time to go through it and give your side of the story a clear thought. I was suprised that you were so vigorous in openning his words up and giving your view on the matter. Like I said...I didn't post it as a TRUTH but merely as a passage that causes one to reflect.




> I believe in the truth, but
>even higher is truthful living.i do not become all defensive
>and claim to be the victim as you have often done in your
>posts Coach...

I don't play victim but always forced to explain the stand of islam on different matters because you (above otehrs) have spread falsehood about Islam. It wasn't being defensive (although you see it that way) but merely explaining the CORRECT Islamic point of view on a matter.



..i have not yet encountered a situation where
>you have proved my truth to be the truth or dissected it
>enough to lay it as bare lies....

Funny that you say that. Most of my posts (if you look around) are adressing YOU and adressing and responding to the accusations you've thrown around especially from faithfreedom.org.

To be honest, you are the one who's been taking the mickey out of what I write. When I posted an an article explaining the pillars of Islam and explaining them to non-Muslims, you openned your own thread and shared with us what you called your own pillars (re-adjusting the words I used).

I take what people say seriously and if you look at the two posts I made, one is running on the 7th page and the other on the 10th page. In those threads, I've responded to EVERYONE who had queries about Islam or anything relating to what I'd posted. I don't expect them to agree with me all the time, but I took the time to explain how I see things and how they are explained in Islam.



> I have had enough
>experience in life to be able to link up science, logic,
>philosophy and life to see the amazing colours of God.

Wow! So can I.


I have
>told you this before (and TM) that if you were to ever read
>your own posts with an open mind you would realize just how
>narrow minded your scope is.

Please show me anything that can be deemed "narow-minded" in my contributions.



When i tell you things that seem
>to good to be true you believe just that.....and do you know
>why? Because your concept of God will never allow you to
>experience how true good is...

Well this is your opinion. I wouldn't go to the lenghts of saying that about someone because only they know how they experience God and the creation. The gnostics in Islam say the same thing when they do their 'soul-travelling'...and I NEVER question or think less of them. On the contrary, I have much respect for their views on the Diety because there are many ways of experiencing God.



..please note my use of words
>carefully.....because your schools have taught - if you are
>good you are true.....whereas in reality if you are true then
>only can you be 'good'.

Well the Islamic view is the same as yours here but you don't know that. Your relationship with God and your views of Him has to be true for your actions to have any substance. It is what is in the heart that matters more than what one does (good deeds). What's the point of doing good if you don't believe in it? It would be like a priest who doesn't truely believe in God, even if he heads mass every Sunday, his actions are useless because he is NOT tru.



Yet even at that point i hesitate to
>add that there is no 'right' or 'wrong' or 'good' or 'bad' per
>se since you have yet to understand the concept of relativity.
>Everything is relative. What could have been good for people
>1500 yrs ago may be bad at this moment especially when the
>world is more aware of things now.

True! Do you know why westerners love to have weddings in June? It is because they bathe in May. The bride and groom want to smell good and look tidy by the time they tie the knot. But with microbiology, we know about the dangers of having bad hygiene, so what was the norm back in the medieval times is seen as 'disgusting' today.

But there are some things that never change even with time. For example, stealing, lying, cheating, killing etc have always been abhored by humans. Likewise, some good things never change, treating others with kindness, helping the poor, curing the sick etc.


I find it a responsiblity
>to remind others of Who we Really Are........yet some of Us
>are being sucked deeper and deeper into the vortex of
>religious texts that anything outside 'what has been written'
>is viewed as 'not the word of' God. Thus it is very difficult
>and rather foolish to try and discuss any rational debate
>about anything with people of one school of thought. I find it
>rather amazing that some people like yourself would claim that
>God can make something 'out of nothing' and refuse to believe
>that this here , my post, could be one of those happenings.


I know that you may have those views about Christianity, but nothing in practical aspect of the Islamic faith goes against logic. We as Muslims are not obliged just to follow the scriptures but urged to use our intellect. As I told you before, you question the validity of the Qur'an but the Qur'an actually invites people to challenge it and to try and find faults in it. It even challenges humans to try and write something like it. This doesn't sound like we are told to follow somethaing blindly does ait?



>You and TM and Volina and all people of 'righteousness' always
>deny God simply because what you see and experience and feel
>does not go according to your 'books'.


I for one do not even agree with TM in the understanding of God. He thinks that we don't have the same God. He talks about 3 gods in 1 etc whereas you believe in One God. In that aspect, you are closer to me than he is, but you keep putting us in the same category.








You cannot experience new thoughts when you are
>desperately holding on to older thoughts....the very thoughts
>that deny you your true self.

How untrue! I read other thoughts all the time...what was I doing reading old greek philosophy which led to this discussion? I'm not a philosophy student but someone who likes to read about how others explain metaphysics, ethics, government etc. I'll be holding to my thoughts because I have not seen any that beats it in any way...whether it's theology, science, social aspects, ethics etc. Believe me, I wouldn't be a Muslim if I thought another ideology was better...and you would be a Muslim if you thought your views were inferior and islam was better. We hold on to what we know and what we find to explain things in the best way.



I have not been on mashada long
>enough to understand everything about everyone. However i have
>read very unreasonable posts.....posts that science would rip
>apart, posts that rationale would tear down and posts that are
>written out of blind faith.

Please show me one such post by me.


Despite ATLians 'colourful'
>language he has very good analogies that none of you ( ye
>people of religious Beliefs) have been able to reason out.
>Despite his lack of acceptance of God he does in fact balance
>out reason....i respect people like that.

He can't show me with demostrative evidence and without any doubt that there isn't a God, but he asks that those who believe in God prove his existence. I respect everyone here, no matter what they believe in.



Zelda has been a
>good contributor......there's alot of knowledge from that
>person.....she knows i know that.

Zelda is a HE.


Volina is in the group of
>people who can justify their position in society because of
>what she has got both materially and mentally....she has yet
>to understand that she is where she is because she chose to,
>not because she prayed for it........think about it...why pray
>to God when God already knows what you want??


Who is Volina?


In fact God
>doesn't want prayers.....God simply wants us to communicate
>with God....the idea of God's letters (ie bible kooran etc) is
>wrought with fear.......


Well..if we are talking about the Qur'an, then you missed a lot if you only saw fear. There are many verses that talk about the beauties of creation and explains how things work. There are verses that deal with embryology, oceanolgy, history, sociology, ethics, physics, philosophy, predictions, mathematics, cosmology, astronomy, biology etc etc.



Peace.